06-30-2020, 01:41 PMRancidbudgie Wrote: Hey Jruttu - I don't think we've interacted on the site before, but I wanted to reach out here.
I think you should have a second chance, absolutely. I hope that means something, as I'm not a GM, but one of the many people who participate in the site and read the forum posts.
However, I think there needs to be some demonstrated growth here before that occurs. Reading your post, I saw no real apology. You seem to be putting more energy into comparing your comments to others and justifying why you should still be playing in the SHL more than you are acknowledging what you have said, and how you recognize it was inappropriate. Without that, many of us here will get the impression that you don't recognize what got you suspended, and that can hurt the potential for empathy and understanding.
If you want to call out others for remarks you deem worse than yours, I will be an ally with you in that - but not ONLY for the fairness of it. Comments like the ones you linked of others r, and the ones you have said yourself, have no place in our pluralistic and accepting society. Invalidating a community based on sexual orientation is wrong, and I hope you recognize that, because nothing in your post genuinely reflected that idea.
Basically, you come across as saying "I should not have the punishment I did, because others said worse things and got away with it" while I empathize with your sense of justice and fair play, that does not exonerate you or mean you did anything "less wrong". This is a fallacy, and I think the SHL would be more understanding if you had taken this opportunity to admit to the things you were in control of that demonstrated intolerance, and how those comments (and links) were intolerant. And, how you plan to grow moving forward from this.
Like I said - I agree with your main point of unfair treatment. But where you lose me, and probably others in the SHL, is by prioritizing the idea that you think you should be punished less because others got away with comments they also should have received penalties for.
In the future, if you see anything you think is homophobic, be the first to call it out, and use yourself as a precedent as to how that person erred in being an accepting human being - something we value as a global society, and with the SHL as an extension of that society.
If that day comes, I'll be right there with you in support.
Thanks for the comment, Its true, the main points in this thread are A) Me not agreeing with the suspension, B) Me wondering how I can get suspended when x and y does not get suspended and C) I´m a free agent= I need a team.
There is no apology or me trying to demonstrate how I have learned from all this. I realize that what I posted was not needed, it was a poor attempt in humor, but I´m not going to apologize for someone feeling offended. If I´m honest, I don´t even think what I posted was homophobic, if I see two dudes kissing or making love, I´m not going to keep on looking, why? Its gross to me. Is that homophobic for me to think? Its my honest feeling on it. That does not mean I´m going to do anything other than turning my head or closing the screen. Two adults can do what they want, I could not care less.
What comes to moving forward from here, I realize that this place is not a place for that type of commentary and not the place to post absolutely everything that I think could be funny, SHL is a serious place or very least a place that should be taken seriously.
I hear what you say about calling things out, but I have different experiences about calling something out. Not just now with these comments, but in the past I felt like I took a right stand, but it resulted in me getting traded and some users disliking me even more. I could even take a stand now about something, but result would be the same, more negatives than positives.
I actually thought that the original suspension for ruutu was quite harsh and that people hd interpreted his comments in the worst possible way, to the point where I think he didn't actually mean to say what people accused him of. But since then he has quite clearly shown through his new posts and his "defense" that he has learned absolutely nothing and that he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore, which just makes the punishment look even more correct in hindsight.
06-30-2020, 01:33 PMjRuutu Wrote: My thoughts exactly, it deserves an suspension.
What are you trying to say? Is this some kind of thinly veiled remark?
I'm laughing at the density of your skull as you some how think that Gibbles posting recipes in drama threads at all should be punishable with a forum suspension or more. I commend you for your incredible mental gymnastics
Oh I´m sorry, was wondering what could be considered as spam. Now I know who knows about these things, so thanks.
06-30-2020, 02:39 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: I actually thought that the original suspension for ruutu was quite harsh and that people hd interpreted his comments in the worst possible way, to the point where I think he didn't actually mean to say what people accused him of. But since then he has quite clearly shown through his new posts and his "defense" that he has learned absolutely nothing and that he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore, which just makes the punishment look even more correct in hindsight.
You know what RED, have you watched Matt Damon and Michael Douglas kiss in Behind the Candelabra? Can you honestly say to me that you find that pleasing? Nothing wrong if you do, but I don´t. Am I now worst of the worst?
06-30-2020, 02:50 PMjRuutu Wrote: You know what RED, have you watched Matt Damon and Michael Douglas kiss in Behind the Candelabra? Can you honestly say to me that you find that pleasing? Nothing wrong if you do, but I don´t. Am I now worst of the worst?
Mate, it’s fine if you think boys kissing boys is icky. Whatever. That alone doesn’t make you the worst of the worst. But when you come onto a forum and start saying “Gay people r gross” then you gotta expect some repercussions. You can’t start spewing homophobic shit and think people are gonna be okay with that.
06-30-2020, 02:39 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: I actually thought that the original suspension for ruutu was quite harsh and that people hd interpreted his comments in the worst possible way, to the point where I think he didn't actually mean to say what people accused him of. But since then he has quite clearly shown through his new posts and his "defense" that he has learned absolutely nothing and that he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore, which just makes the punishment look even more correct in hindsight.
You know what RED, have you watched Matt Damon and Michael Douglas kiss in Behind the Candelabra? Can you honestly say to me that you find that pleasing? Nothing wrong if you do, but I don´t. Am I now worst of the worst?
you're not the worst for feeling like you don't care for watching gay things happen in front of you, you're the worst for INJECTING YOURSELF into a thread that was clearly in celebration of non-hetero-whatever and making a point to tell people you wouldn't feel safe in femboy hooters and that you find it disgusting. That's bigoted speech. It doesn't matter that you tolerate their behavior, what matters is what you *said* and *implied*.
this coupled with the fact that you always always always double down on your intolerance with a mask of "but I was just asking!", meanwhile throwing underhanded daggers at groups of people you don't like, namely people of color and our gay friends.
The fact that your best reply to Roman was to say "don't you find that gross? I find that gross." leads me to believe you might actually need to be taught social cues and what constitutes bigoted speech. Clearly you're not picking up on it, and you have no willingness to learn.
06-30-2020, 02:50 PMjRuutu Wrote: You know what RED, have you watched Matt Damon and Michael Douglas kiss in Behind the Candelabra? Can you honestly say to me that you find that pleasing? Nothing wrong if you do, but I don´t. Am I now worst of the worst?
Mate, it’s fine if you think boys kissing boys is icky. Whatever. That alone doesn’t make you the worst of the worst. But when you come onto a forum and start saying “Gay people r gross” then you gotta expect some repercussions. You can’t start spewing homophobic shit and think people are gonna be okay with that.
And that is fine, but don´t you think 3 game suspension + 7 day posting ban was bit excessive for saying just that? That is all I´m trying to say and also hopefully same standards are kept in the future for all types of forum related offenses.
06-30-2020, 03:00 PMThisSeemsFishy Wrote: Mate, it’s fine if you think boys kissing boys is icky. Whatever. That alone doesn’t make you the worst of the worst. But when you come onto a forum and start saying “Gay people r gross” then you gotta expect some repercussions. You can’t start spewing homophobic shit and think people are gonna be okay with that.
And that is fine, but don´t you think 3 game suspension + 7 day posting ban was bit excessive for saying just that? That is all I´m trying to say and also hopefully same standards are kept in the future for all types of forum related offenses.
06-30-2020, 02:39 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: I actually thought that the original suspension for ruutu was quite harsh and that people hd interpreted his comments in the worst possible way, to the point where I think he didn't actually mean to say what people accused him of. But since then he has quite clearly shown through his new posts and his "defense" that he has learned absolutely nothing and that he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore, which just makes the punishment look even more correct in hindsight.
You know what RED, have you watched Matt Damon and Michael Douglas kiss in Behind the Candelabra? Can you honestly say to me that you find that pleasing? Nothing wrong if you do, but I don´t. Am I now worst of the worst?
Are you a little child? Just because you're not personally attracted to something sexual doesn't make it gross. Nobody is forcing you to be attracted to anything you aren't attracted to.
08-24-2018, 01:08 PMWannabeFinn Wrote: Ah yes, the veteran meme player. A surefire bet for maybe 400 TPE
06-30-2020, 02:50 PMjRuutu Wrote: You know what RED, have you watched Matt Damon and Michael Douglas kiss in Behind the Candelabra? Can you honestly say to me that you find that pleasing? Nothing wrong if you do, but I don´t. Am I now worst of the worst?
you're not the worst for feeling like you don't care for watching gay things happen in front of you, you're the worst for INJECTING YOURSELF into a thread that was clearly in celebration of non-hetero-whatever and making a point to tell people you wouldn't feel safe in femboy hooters and that you find it disgusting. That's bigoted speech. It doesn't matter that you tolerate their behavior, what matters is what you *said* and *implied*.
this coupled with the fact that you always always always double down on your intolerance with a mask of "but I was just asking!", meanwhile throwing underhanded daggers at groups of people you don't like, namely people of color and our gay friends.
The fact that your best reply to Roman was to say "don't you find that gross? I find that gross." leads me to believe you might actually need to be taught social cues and what constitutes bigoted speech. Clearly you're not picking up on it, and you have no willingness to learn.
You could be right, I don´t read into these things as much as I should, what I think is ´fine´ is something some or even most consider to be offensive.
06-30-2020, 03:12 PMjRuutu Wrote: You could be right, I don´t read into these things as much as I should, what I think is ´fine´ is something some or even most consider to be offensive.
I am right. We're telling you why you're wrong, and that what you're saying *is* offensive.
06-30-2020, 03:00 PMThisSeemsFishy Wrote: Mate, it’s fine if you think boys kissing boys is icky. Whatever. That alone doesn’t make you the worst of the worst. But when you come onto a forum and start saying “Gay people r gross” then you gotta expect some repercussions. You can’t start spewing homophobic shit and think people are gonna be okay with that.
And that is fine, but don´t you think 3 game suspension + 7 day posting ban was bit excessive for saying just that? That is all I´m trying to say and also hopefully same standards are kept in the future for all types of forum related offenses.
No. I don't think that's excessive. I have zero tolerance for homophobia and I'm glad you got the hammer dropped. It's clear you're not sorry about what you said. Someone calling someone else out for homophobia/racist remarks is not the same as making those remarks. I will gladly tell a racist or a homophobe to get the fuck outta my shit.
06-30-2020, 02:50 PMjRuutu Wrote: You know what RED, have you watched Matt Damon and Michael Douglas kiss in Behind the Candelabra? Can you honestly say to me that you find that pleasing? Nothing wrong if you do, but I don´t. Am I now worst of the worst?
Are you a little child? Just because you're not personally attracted to something sexual doesn't make it gross. Nobody is forcing you to be attracted to anything you aren't attracted to.
So when I felt grossed out while watching for example the mentioned Matt Damon and Michael Douglas kiss, how do you suggest I describe my feelings? Are you perhaps suggesting I should lie?
06-30-2020, 03:24 PM(This post was last modified: 06-30-2020, 03:25 PM by jRuutu.)
06-30-2020, 03:15 PMThisSeemsFishy Wrote:
06-30-2020, 03:03 PMjRuutu Wrote: And that is fine, but don´t you think 3 game suspension + 7 day posting ban was bit excessive for saying just that? That is all I´m trying to say and also hopefully same standards are kept in the future for all types of forum related offenses.
No. I don't think that's excessive. I have zero tolerance for homophobia and I'm glad you got the hammer dropped. It's clear you're not sorry about what you said. Someone calling someone else out for homophobia/racist remarks is not the same as making those remarks. I will gladly tell a racist or a homophobe to get the fuck outta my shit.
Wouldnt that make you a hypocrite? Forums should be a safe place with clean and non offensive language being used, BUT not when responding to something ´offensive´? If I find something offensive, can I just unload verbally on that person, are the rules more relaxed in those situations?
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