08-30-2020, 09:37 PMFitted2106 Wrote: @TheHockeyist
Your just mad igors peak was more of a valley
No. Igor is still improving and he enjoys his present team. Satisfaction is more important to Igor than a Cup is. Set your standards low and you will be satisfied. I care not about the number of cups you win. I do care about you being arrogant and attacking me for offering constructive criticism.
we've talked about your "constructive criticism" before. If you wanna take that stance, you cant have it dripping with insult. As it stands, your position is indefensible. You got into a school yard scuffle with the drunkest person (currently) in the SHL.
08-30-2020, 09:39 PMTheHockeyist Wrote: No. Igor is still improving and he enjoys his present team. Satisfaction is more important to Igor than a Cup is. Set your standards low and you will be satisfied. I care not about the number of cups you win. I do care about you being arrogant and attacking me for offering constructive criticism.
we've talked about your "constructive criticism" before. If you wanna take that stance, you cant have it dripping with insult. As it stands, your position is indefensible. You got into a school yard scuffle with the drunkest person (currently) in the SHL.
Still, I argue that being drunk is no excuse for blatantly incorrect grammar.
08-30-2020, 09:50 PMPremierBromanov Wrote: we've talked about your "constructive criticism" before. If you wanna take that stance, you cant have it dripping with insult. As it stands, your position is indefensible. You got into a school yard scuffle with the drunkest person (currently) in the SHL.
Still, I argue that being drunk is no excuse for blatantly incorrect grammar.
i assure you anyone who thinks there's objectively correct grammar does not know nearly enough about grammar
08-30-2020, 09:54 PMgrok Wrote: i assure you anyone who thinks there's objectively correct grammar does not know nearly enough about grammar
In that case, "Me eats a food" is objectively correct grammar, is it not?
it certainly is not incorrect. and you can try to "game" me all you like but i have a degree in english composition/literature with a capstone in modernist freeform poetry. this is my professional opinion, and it is that your frustration is petulant and not helpful.
08-30-2020, 09:55 PMTheHockeyist Wrote: In that case, "Me eats a food" is objectively correct grammar, is it not?
it certainly is not incorrect. and you can try to "game" me all you like but i have a degree in english composition/literature with a capstone in modernist freeform poetry. this is my professional opinion, and it is that your frustration is petulant and not helpful.
Very well. I am aware of the limitations of descriptivist grammar and how some Latin-based rules are no longer considered objectively correct. But still, at least the basic rules like punctuation usage and capitalization and word order are more consistent, barring some edge cases. This is what I'm complaining about.
08-30-2020, 09:58 PMgrok Wrote: it certainly is not incorrect. and you can try to "game" me all you like but i have a degree in english composition/literature with a capstone in modernist freeform poetry. this is my professional opinion, and it is that your frustration is petulant and not helpful.
Very well. I am aware of the limitations of descriptivist grammar and how some Latin-based rules are no longer considered objectively correct. But still, at least the basic rules like punctuation usage and capitalization and word order are more consistent, barring some edge cases. This is what I'm complaining about.
the assumptions you're making that i have a problem with are
1. internet english is the same dialect as spoken or even written english. the high speed communications needs have transformed how internet users use english to communicate so much that there's almost no value in direct comparisons to "school english" and this is very well studied in the linguistic space
2. fitted is a native english speaker. this subcommunity in specific has a very wide reach to folks in non-english speaking countries, and even if fitted does speak english as a first language it's shitty to see that attitude as someone with limited english speaking skills
3. english writing has to have predictable grammar to be valuable. i'm not about to claim fitted's media is fine art, but i think it's dishonest to say his writing is incomprehensible. i am certainly able to read it and derive value from it, even if it's challenging for different reasons than i'm used to.
i'm not trying to fight and i've said my piece. i just hope you think about why you're making those assumptions, and how you could change the way you engage with both people and writing by challenging those assumptions.
08-30-2020, 10:31 PM(This post was last modified: 08-30-2020, 10:32 PM by TheHockeyist.)
08-30-2020, 10:21 PMgrok Wrote:
08-30-2020, 10:01 PMTheHockeyist Wrote: Very well. I am aware of the limitations of descriptivist grammar and how some Latin-based rules are no longer considered objectively correct. But still, at least the basic rules like punctuation usage and capitalization and word order are more consistent, barring some edge cases. This is what I'm complaining about.
the assumptions you're making that i have a problem with are
1. internet english is the same dialect as spoken or even written english. the high speed communications needs have transformed how internet users use english to communicate so much that there's almost no value in direct comparisons to "school english" and this is very well studied in the linguistic space
2. fitted is a native english speaker. this subcommunity in specific has a very wide reach to folks in non-english speaking countries, and even if fitted does speak english as a first language it's shitty to see that attitude as someone with limited english speaking skills
3. english writing has to have predictable grammar to be valuable. i'm not about to claim fitted's media is fine art, but i think it's dishonest to say his writing is incomprehensible. i am certainly able to read it and derive value from it, even if it's challenging for different reasons than i'm used to.
i'm not trying to fight and i've said my piece. i just hope you think about why you're making those assumptions, and how you could change the way you engage with both people and writing by challenging those assumptions.
1. For me at least, the two, even three, are essentially the same. I speak, write, and type pretty much identically with little overlap in style, regardless of register or medium. Most of what I use varies depending on who I'm talking to, and I default to a semi-formal neutral style like the one I'm typing in right now.
2. Not every native speaker has learned the art of grammar and composition. Where I'm from, it was drilled heavily. We had a lot of "do this, not that" and "in these cases, never do this". I didn't attend a grammar school, but jeez. When I was in elementary school and we had to grade others' writing, I covered the page in red ink. Even at a young age, I was correcting spelling, editing in semicolons, and all of that fun stuff. Most people who were graded by me ended up failing and complained that I was being an unfair grader. I was only strictly following the rubric provided.
3. Predictable grammar, yes. I will say that his standard of writing violates much of what I was taught. If he were a student, I would inevitably give him more red ink than black and fail him. It is very challenging to read, and one glance at it results in an urge to get out the red pen, no, the urge to dismiss the entire thing as "start over unless you want to fail".
08-30-2020, 10:01 PMTheHockeyist Wrote: how some Latin-based rules are no longer considered objectively correct.
the history behind this is actually worth knowing. The short of it is that the rules were created by the elite as a way to differentiate the poor from the rich, as writing itself was something that was out of reach from most people. As writing became more common, it was necessary to create little rules like "You can't end a sentence with a proposition" to further separate the educated rich from the uneducated poor.
You'll find most societal rules, like table manners, are derived from trying to figure out who is poor and who is not. This is still in effect today, as ebonics have emerged as their own dialect and is often sneered at by people who would preach "proper grammar" and all it seeks to say is "You are poor, and I am not".
I mean, we havent even dipped our toe into the ethnocentrism dripping from the idea of "write english the way I want you to write it".
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