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Third League
#1
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2020, 02:15 AM by FlappyGiraffe.)

**I haven't given this a TON of thought so don't flame me if I'm missing something obvious about this, it's more of a fun idea I've had that I'd like to see built upon by others of the community**


There are lots of reasons not to do this that people will be quick to comment on, but I've had this in my head and wanted to share anyway since I think it would be a cool revamp. Perfect time to shake things up on the off chance this does get traction, entering a new era (66 games). I'm sure many people have had a similar idea before, and I have not ran any numbers to see if this could even work out.

To begin, I think it would be cool to add a third league alongside the SMJHL and SHL, with the goal to increase retention and keep people interested in the site. This league would act kind of as the SHL's AHL/Euro leagues. For the purpose of this proposition the league will be called the SAHL. 





Ideas about SAHL:

1) No TPE Cap in SAHL. Players would be free to keep building their players week to week and seeing their activity pay off in the sim. From personal experience, I almost quit the SHL in my second season with my first player since I got so bored of the lack of progression. I only stuck with it since I didn't want to let WPG down after being taken with their first rounder. This was my experience for just my 2nd season, as I was called up in my third. I can't imagine how some people that are forced to spend 4 seasons with no progression feel, or how many users we see dropping off because of this.

2) Basically players drafted to the SHL can be loaned to SAHL teams as soon as their second season, if their SHL team chooses to. This would be HUGE for the progression of 2nd/3rd/4th year players that can't make their SHL team, as many are capped for 90% of those 3 seasons. This also keeps the SMJHL competitive for new players. Having a system to loan your players to new teams also lets people meet new users, and helps fight against some of the cliquishness prevalent on the site.

2) SMJHL becomes capped again at 350 TPE. It should be a league that rookies can be huge contributors in, and a haven for slow earners. Could cap SMJHL as a 2 year league and age players out, unless your rights are not owned by an SHL team.

3) Some SMJHL teams will move to the SAHL to make the numbers work, it COULD also have some kind of relegation system to keep it competitive and fresh, without being at the expense of active users. With less SMJHL teams more rookies would have a chance to win championships, which is also huge for player retention.

5) SAHL teams would be loaned players from multiple SHL teams, since we don't have the users/players to give each SHL team their own SAHL team. These allegiances can be tweaked season to season to make the
  numbers work.

6) More GM jobs available (tons of people never get a chance to GM that would like to due to the number of teams). Also could create more jobs by having an SAHL HO to handle relegation and/or assigning SHL teams to SAHL teams.





Basically with this implemented the timeline for a new user would be: SMJHL -> Drafted to SHL -> Loaned to SAHL -> work way up into the SHL over time.

Like I said there are a lot of issues with this, I'm hoping that someone smarter than me likes the idea and figures out if there is a way to make it work. In my opinion this would make a players first several season immensely more dynamic and enjoyable than the stagnant system that we have right now.

As I said earlier, this is more of a brainstorm than a suggestion to feel free to post your own ideas or arguments against this!

**Edit

Just thought of something to add to the loaning thing, an option that would be pretty sick is if all the players loaned to the SAHL were put in a pool.

Then the SAHL teams could draft from this pool of available players each season to keep things fresh. Would also make it a lot more fun to GM one of these teams. **

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#2

Actually I had talks in Czechia discord about this


(i will be against this on my end)

I will be pulling from Discord directly so the thoughts are all the way formed


3 leagues will have to be something where we rework how the SMJHL Exists
so like, by reworking the SMJHL that will be a ton of work. So then the question goes into how many teams in the SMJHL will be too much
is it 12? is it 16? who knows
but by a certain part I think there has to be a 2nd league inbetween the 2
but it cant be like SHL Teams assigning them, unless there are like only 6 teams in that 2nd league
OR, the 2nd league pulls from the same SMJHL teams... that could work
I think if we up the amount of GP in the SHL will allow that 2nd league to exist
to lets say the 3rd and 4th year of senddowns
so I would say something like

SHL: 24 teams
AHL: 6 Teams
SMJHL: 18 Teams
but with lets say a roster of 18 people per team that is 864 users/players in the league
we have about 400 active users, and I think we have like 500-550 players in the league?

right now with 18 SHL teams and 12 SMJHL teams we have 30 teams right now

So for another league it would have to be a small league, or we rework the SMJHL

I was going to say whats the point in the SHL and the SMJHL where you want to create a 2nd league instead of keep on expanding the SMJHL
it could be
SHL: 20
AHL: 4
SMJHL: 12


In the end, the main goal is to get to the SHL, and it should be 3-4 seasons. So if you make the SMJHL your first 2 seasons(a lot of rework of how the league is structured), and then your SHL team assigns you to an "AHL" level team, but then it goes into the #of teams problem.

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#3

In case anyone is wondering: me and flappy spitballed the relegation idea, and came to the conclusion that in its current state, would be very messy (for example, teams could lose a bunch of players over 1 offseason if their SMJHL class gets reassigned)

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#4

Reminder for me to come back and read this. I pitched something no doubt similar to this before s46. It didn't go over well.

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#5

11-16-2020, 12:54 AMluketd Wrote: Actually I had talks in Czechia discord about this


(i will be against this on my end)

I will be pulling from Discord directly so the thoughts are all the way formed


3 leagues will have to be something where we rework how the SMJHL Exists
so like, by reworking the SMJHL that will be a ton of work. So then the question goes into how many teams in the SMJHL will be too much
is it 12? is it 16? who knows
but by a certain part I think there has to be a 2nd league inbetween the 2
but it cant be like SHL Teams assigning them, unless there are like only 6 teams in that 2nd league
OR, the 2nd league pulls from the same SMJHL teams... that could work
I think if we up the amount of GP in the SHL will allow that 2nd league to exist
to lets say the 3rd and 4th year of senddowns
so I would say something like

SHL: 24 teams
AHL: 6 Teams
SMJHL: 18 Teams
but with lets say a roster of 18 people per team that is 864 users/players in the league
we have about 400 active users, and I think we have like 500-550 players in the league?

right now with 18 SHL teams and 12 SMJHL teams we have 30 teams right now

So for another league it would have to be a small league, or we rework the SMJHL

I was going to say whats the point in the SHL and the SMJHL where you want to create a 2nd league instead of keep on expanding the SMJHL
it could be
SHL: 20
AHL: 4
SMJHL: 12


In the end, the main goal is to get to the SHL, and it should be 3-4 seasons. So if you make the SMJHL your first 2 seasons(a lot of rework of how the league is structured), and then your SHL team assigns you to an "AHL" level team, but then it goes into the #of teams problem.

Thanks for bringing the numbers, interesting stuff.

Almost feels like to accomplish this it would be easier to just split the SMJHL into two leagues, and have a fluid promotion/relegation depending on the amount of players needed to fill each one. Like MCP said that would introduce problems of it's own (like having an entire team turnover if you are relegated/promoted).

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#6

What's next, humans walk on the moon? the earth is round? vaccines work?
get this madness out of here.
Joking aside, I don't know how it would work, it's not my job to, but I think it sounds neat.
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#7

I suggested this in a shitpost media piece in August of last year. My idea was insane though. I'm all for more teams and hockey if the playerbase is sustainable. I just fear for the day that we don't grow/shrink and a team has to fold.

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#8

IIRC we talked about something like this before the emergency Lethbridge-Anaheim expansion and it never happened. Would need to do a *lot* of roster math to make the league alignments work. Not that it's impossible.


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#9

So my favorite part about this idea is maybe we can finally fix the weird wage system where your SHL team pays you for your time in the SMJHL and they have no thought to call you up (like season 2 or 3 in SMJHL). This way the junior team would be on the hook for until you get an ELC with the SHL team which would be loaned to the AHL team, at which a point you should be close enough to making the SHL that it might make sense (like say a stunning retirement or something)

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#10
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2020, 01:40 AM by caltroit_red_flames.)

There have been some interesting ideas brought up about a team similar to the KHL, especially with a 1500ish TPE goalie wasn't able to find a team. Would be interesting to just have janky league of all of the unsigned players on the side.

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#11

Just thought of something to add to the loaning thing, an option that would be pretty sick is if all the players loaned to the SAHL were put in a pool.

Then the SAHL teams could draft from this pool of available players each season to keep things fresh. Would also make it a lot more fun to GM one of these teams.

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#12

I've been thinking about a third league for a while, especially as I spent all 4 years in the J, and basically 425 capped twice. I think it'd be a good idea, where players spend 2 years in the J, then move onto an AHL type league after. Not adjusting attributes for 4 months was boring, especially when I found out my build wasn't particularly good.

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#13

There are actually a bunch of leagues who have tried some kind of third "tier" before, although not in the exact same way that you are describing. The SHL itself had the EEL waaaaaay back which was more of a side-league though with no direct connections to SHL or SMJHL-teams, which never took off. And in fact the VHL announced just a few days ago that they would try a third league within their system, although not as a stepping stone between pros and juniors, as you are describing, but as a tier below juniors for late season joiners, lower activity players and all the others who might struggle to get significant playing time on a junior roster in tims of big classes.

Generally speaking I think this is an interesting thought experiment that is definitely worth exploring, but at the end of the day juniors are the lifeblood of this league and I would rather not fiddle with that and force players out of that enviroment that has become so fruitful for the entire league.
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#14
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2020, 09:39 AM by Tomen.)

We had this talk in BUF before too and I think I brought it up in ANC here and there. It was prior to the expansion that brought in NL and ANA. Basically what we thought was the new middle league would need some sort of stable environment so there isn't too much inconsistencies and roster turnover.
We thought back then that in the SMJHL only SMJHL rookies and freshly draft SHL players would be able to play. ( The freshly drafted SHL players would be capped either at 350 or 425)
The new AHL type league would consist of 4 teams (1 per SHL division and also pull their players from these divisions) So you have the Great Lakes team, Atlantic team, Northwest and Southwest team.
The AHL type league would be uncapped like already suggested in the OP and mostly be a place for developing players so they aren't being forced to be capped and the roster would be filled with IA free agents that aren't used. (SMJHL would only get FAs of 350 TPE and lower to fill up the bottom 2 lines and is forced to always play an active player in the top 6 lines above IAs)
If there is someone who goes inactive while being capped in the SMJHL but surpasses the TPE limit of 350 they could be used to an uncapped build in the AHL type league.
Obviously this idea was thought of before the recent SHL expansion which got us to not equal numbers of teams residing in each division.
For an AHL type of league to succeed you 100% need it to make it as stable as possible and the SMJHL would go back to their original purposes of being solely a developmental league with mostly SMJHL rookies and a few capped players + IA under 351 TPE.

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#15

IDK i feel it would be better to just remove the whole 3rd season players being allowed to unbank to 425 and just have everyone be able to do it as soon as they've earned over 350. Then if you get bored of not seeing progression ask to get called up so you can unbank. I've personally never seen the problem so perhaps my points are moot, lol.

I just don't see a good enough reason to add some middle tier teams in their separate league that probably won't have that many active players, and/or will make it so that people take even longer before they go up to the SHL.
Adding it would definitely have to bring a change to the SMJHL so that there are only rookies and sophomore players there, but IMO it's just more to keep track of, especially for new users to the league.

But then again, i've never felt like i would quit because i was capped for a season or two, so i have a hard time understanding the problem.

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