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***golden_apricot*** · 11-16-2020, 08:25 AM

11-16-2020, 06:52 AMAvakael Wrote: The other problem is that you'd have to make everyone fill out a 4th line and play it a minimum minute count, because otherwise you've got a much better shot at an award if you're on a team with fewer players. It was particularly messy in S30s STHS where at least two teams won cups playing just 6 forwards.

so in FHM you would have to have 20 dressed regardless of if that 4th line is filled. Now what this means is they will play when top line players are fatigued even though they are not on a line. What this would mean is that you are mostly correct, although in a back to back you would end up basically double shifting these guys so it would somewhat even out. Also the team would lose the second game of a back to back 8/10 times. I think it is still a dumb idea to have a 4th line but that would be the risk reward of a team running a 4th line low minutes.

PremierBromanov · 11-16-2020, 10:05 AM

11-16-2020, 07:28 AMst4rface Wrote: There will be needed probably rule changes, cap changes and other stuff if this is invented. Less time for defenders too. Half yes, half no, because this is better for teams, but worse for individual players.

how is it less time for defenders?

dankoa · 11-16-2020, 10:12 AM

the fact is that no one really wants to play on a 4th line. it would be shit for everyone who gets stuck on one, and with regard to your point in the op i just don't see how the prospect of playing minimal minutes on a 4th line would be something that would incentivize people who don't earn a lot and are contemplating leaving to stick around

st4rface · 11-16-2020, 10:19 AM

11-16-2020, 10:05 AMPremierBromanov Wrote:
11-16-2020, 07:28 AMst4rface Wrote: There will be needed probably rule changes, cap changes and other stuff if this is invented. Less time for defenders too. Half yes, half no, because this is better for teams, but worse for individual players.
how is it less time for defenders?

Defenders have three lines. Now they have 60 minutes to split between 3 lines which is 20 minutes per line (average). 4 lines will make it 15 minutes per each line (average). Of course, each line will have different amount of ice time and there's possibility that 1st line defender will play in 4th line aswell, but there's a chance of opposite too. Rules might say that defenders can't play in multiple lines or 4th line is for IA. Based on possibilities and rule changes - I think there will be defenders who have less ice time.

st4rface · 11-16-2020, 10:20 AM

11-16-2020, 10:12 AMdankoa Wrote: the fact is that no one really wants to play on a 4th line. it would be shit for everyone who gets stuck on one, and with regard to your point in the op i just don't see how the prospect of playing minimal minutes on a 4th line would be something that would incentivize people who don't earn a lot and are contemplating leaving to stick around

Yeah. Exactly what I was thinking. 4th line defenders will have like 10 minutes of ice time per game. And other lines will have less ice time because of these 10 minutes (or more) aswell. Sorry for double post though.

PremierBromanov · 11-16-2020, 10:26 AM

11-16-2020, 10:19 AMst4rface Wrote:
11-16-2020, 10:05 AMPremierBromanov Wrote: how is it less time for defenders?
Defenders have three lines. Now they have 60 minutes to split between 3 lines which is 20 minutes per line (average). 4 lines will make it 15 minutes per each line (average). Of course, each line will have different amount of ice time and there's possibility that 1st line defender will play in 4th line aswell, but there's a chance of opposite too. Rules might say that defenders can't play in multiple lines or 4th line is for IA. Based on possibilities and rule changes - I think there will be defenders who have less ice time.

a 4th forward line would keep defenders at 3 pairs, like the NHL. So we're adding 3 players per team, not 5 players.

***artermis*** · 11-16-2020, 01:14 PM

I would rather be traded elsewhere I think then play 4th line :(

I'm an awful earner, so I don't think the promise of a higher spot soon would do much for me either

PremierBromanov · 11-16-2020, 02:38 PM

11-16-2020, 01:14 PMartermis Wrote: I would rather be traded elsewhere I think then play 4th line :(

I'm an awful earner, so I don't think the promise of a higher spot soon would do much for me either

the alternative would be not playing at all, i think. which is currently what is happening.

***goldenglutes*** · 11-16-2020, 02:43 PM

11-16-2020, 12:42 AMhotdog Wrote: where are we gonna come up with 54 forwards right now lol

make all the goalies switch to forward bam two birds with one stone

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Mazatt · 11-16-2020, 03:08 PM

Personally I'd rather get another shot at being really good in the J than to play 3 minutes a night in the SHL with inactives. I'd sooner demand a trade than get put on the 4th line, I just can't see the appeal of it.

Is it a genuine issue that slow-earning players aren't getting any playing time in the SHL? I keep seeing that idea, but GM's have been very accomodating about trading players if it becomes clear they don't have an easy in on the roster, or making other secessions in order for prospects to make the lineup when comfortable

***honkerrs*** · 11-16-2020, 03:42 PM

11-16-2020, 12:42 AMhotdog Wrote: where are we gonna come up with 54 forwards right now lol

let goalies swap @nour

FlappyGiraffe · 11-16-2020, 03:56 PM

I'm probably in the minority, but I would be fine playing a season on the 4th line to prove myself IF 500-700 TPE was viable to be a 4th line guy.

PremierBromanov · 11-16-2020, 04:36 PM

11-16-2020, 03:08 PMMazatt Wrote: Personally I'd rather get another shot at being really good in the J than to play 3 minutes a night in the SHL with inactives. I'd sooner demand a trade than get put on the 4th line, I just can't see the appeal of it.

Is it a genuine issue that slow-earning players aren't getting any playing time in the SHL? I keep seeing that idea, but GM's have been very accomodating about trading players if it becomes clear they don't have an easy in on the roster, or making other secessions in order for prospects to make the lineup when comfortable

i mean, if you're not cracking 1,000 I think you'd have a hard time finding a long term home on any team. Also, with how many picks each team gets every season (which is way more than leave the team every season), there's a natural tendency for under-earners to be obsolete pretty quickly. I mean, consider a baseline 20 players at 1,000. You're looking at at least 5 seasons for those players to start to enter regression, at which point they're still useful for another 3-5 seasons.

In that 8-10 season span, a team will have naturally generated up to 10 firsts, 10 seconds, and 10 thirds. That's 30 players that just won't make the cut. Of course, teams aren't set up this way, lots of teams trade assets for players (some like Theo are worth handfuls of 1sts). The point I'm making though is that every team is expected to shed most of their prospects if they have them, and maybe that's not a great thing.

the other side is that IAs are often cheaper than a real player, and when you need a warm body sometimes it easier to secure a cheap 500-699 TPE player than one who is in the next salary bracket. Especially with the new cap.

Lastly, personally, i know TBB has worked with players who want to stay down vs come up ASAP. we have a few who want up as soon as they can, others want to win a cup first, still others want 4 years no matter what (which i get, because i like the J a lot). I don't believe many teams would ruin your J experience by calling you up prematurely, but you're right in that it would be more frequent with 4 lines.

*JURT* · 11-16-2020, 05:57 PM

Lots of people don't want to play on a 4th, but there are some that would prefer that to a longer J career. I know I would've, that's why I made a defensive forward in the first place, to have a shot at being decent on a 4th line in the SHL earlier (then I learned 4th lines don't exist).

Fitted2106 · 11-16-2020, 07:15 PM

Give 4th lines and random superstar rookies. [Make every player in a draft guess a number between 1 and 1000 if they get it right at creation they get 1200 tpe and cap at 2700]

Poll: 4th line You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Yes	52.38%	33	52.38%
No	47.62%	30	47.62%
Total		63 vote(s)	100%

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