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hhh81 · 11-23-2020, 08:12 PM

Hi all,

This is where I'm going to funnel the salt and anger about SMJHL Awards. As you may know, I'm the Awards Head. As you might also have realized, we're running a bit behind. Votes are tabulated and Inf1d3l and Wally are hard at work on putting on another great Awards Show soon™. Keep an eye out for that announcement.

In the meantime, I wanted to open up the floor for the questions and concerns that will come soon (as it always does). On the front end, here are a few things you should know.

1. Onoprienko (Most Underrated)

Each season, we ask GMs to nominate one player from their roster they think is most underrated. Most GMs get back to us with nominees. Some don't. Then the committee votes on our top people and those become the finalists. This year's nominees are:

CAR: Grape Fruit
COL: Mack Daddy
DET: Evangelos Giannopoulos
KEL: Cian McFelter
MET: Walton Stromberg
NBB: James Kimanje
QCC: Kev Kevans
VAN: Knockedout ByOvechkin

Anaheim, Anchorage, St. Louis, and Newfoundland did not elect to nominate a player this season.

2. Change to Nour Harrak (Best GMs)

With a great suggestion from @SDCore last season, we are revising the Harrak to consider GMs on three-year windows. We hope this will better embody the hard work over time GMs do (and not trap certain GMs who build powerhouses and then can maintain for several seasons into "what have you done for me lately" as has happened with recent Detroit and Newfoundland teams.) We're working out the kinks, and welcome constructive feedback on how to do this better as we work through this change.

3. Change for the Cedric Robinson Trophy (Best Goalie) Eligibility

And here's the controversial part. With the new name comes a new rule for who is eligible for Best Goalie. This award has, by and large for 55 seasons, been an award given to a clear-cut starting goalie (40+ starts), as that has been the "meta" in the SMJHL. With the switch to FHM, that has changed, and we've seen more tandem situations than ever before, which changes how the committee has to look at goalies. Only three goalies had 40+ starts this season, and with changes to rules (and more games in S57!) I wanted us to get ahead of this by setting some public and clear parameters for consideration for this award. We talked at length on the topic, and have come to a decision.

With the league pushing more toward two active goalies, we don't want to punish teams who are upholding that goal by platooning their netminders. We also don't want to change 55 seasons of the spirit of the award and start nominating players who put up insane numbers in 10-15 games over strong numbers over a bigger sample size. In the end, we ruled that goalies must appear in at least 50% of the team's regular season games for consideration for the Robinson. For this season, that's a 25 game cutoff, for a 66 game slate that will be 33 or more games. By and large, that's a pretty reasonable figure, as 14 goalies are eligible this season.

This posed a problem from a result orientation, as there was a very good goalie this season who only appeared in 24 games this season, and may have garnered some votes for the Robinson (Jon St Ark). I understand the frustration some may have about this; I felt conflicted throughout the decision process, as @Arkz had an amazing season. In the end, I ruled that 50% of the games made the most sense for the spirit of the award now and in the future, and the best choice from a process orientation. I did not believe that 40% of the season (20 game) cutoff was as good an option as 50%. There were opinions on both sides of the choice from the Awards Committee, and likely some who think I made the wrong call here. I stand by the decision, and have spoken with BadWolf and Arkz himself about the choice prior to finalizing voting or going public with this. I hope my explanation helps get ahead of any frustrations.

Hit me with any other questions you have. I'll probably keep this open for a week or two!

11-23-2020, 08:20 PMSnoopdogg Wrote: can i have an award?

Sorry, no can do. You are up in the big leagues now, son!

11-23-2020, 08:36 PMMazatt Wrote: Is it difficult to be so open about the awards process, voting, and general decision making with it?

How do you feel the recent awards that we're added have helped satisfy the people? Any thoughts of adding more strict stats awards, or if there are anymore stats worth recognizing?

Yes, it can be very challenging to be so open, but I think it's important to be open and honest with the public. I'm very big on the process-orientation, so I want people to understand the processes that create the results. When I joined the team, I didn't even know who won and by how much. It was all secret from the committee just like from the public. I tried to fix that when I took over, and I'm proud of the work I've done. People have asked for even more openness about vote totals in recent seasons, so I've tried to share that as well. I've had it ready for a few seasons before that, but the awards show never chose to use it. No big deal, but now we're working to be as open about the process as we can.

I think it helps to have more awards, and I think we've done that well with the recent additions. I thought we needed another goalie award badly, as well as the Metzler, and then I was give or take on another award. I think most improved is a good one, though I'm still wrapping my head around the best way to do that one, honestly. I don't think any additional stats awards are necessary. I think a most PIMs award is stupid and doesn't add to the quality of the league, so I don't have interest in adding a Turd Ferguson to the J. I know that will be controversial for some, and I accept that.

11-23-2020, 08:36 PMMazatt Wrote: How can E-mo-tion be the best pop album? To be more precise, how does the banger that is E-mo-tion hoist up the rest of the record?

Sir, how dare you. I need more time and space for this.

EDIT: Okay, let's do this.

From front to back, E-MO-TION is a damn good pop record. Run Away With Me (with or without the meme) is incredible. I Really Like You and Boy Problems are fun as well. Your Type is heartbreaking embodied in glorious pop vibes. Let's Get Lost is glorious. All That is underrated as fuck. THE DELUXE TRACKS (Black Heart, I Didn't Just Come Here to Dance, Favorite Color) ARE FUCKING BANGERS FRONT TO BACK.

JK, I"m gonna go listen to the whole album front to back and come back to this. I want to be FULLY IN IT to answer this question.

P.S.S. So I listened to it front to back. There isn't a bad track in sight. Even the songs I don't like as much (When I Needed You, LA Hallucinations, and maybe Emotion) are still damn strong songs. It ebbs and flows beautifully. It's so rare to find albums that are good front to back. Then she had the audacity to throw down a full B-Sides album full of MORE bangers? C'mon!

11-24-2020, 11:49 AMCementHands Wrote: Hey HHH, miss you in GM chat, but you are doing good work around the site.
What are your thoughts about the GM award being voted on by GMs? I feel there is a lot of behind the scenes things that get missed by committee (or I could be way out to lunch). This can also open a can of worms, as GM's are horrible human beings, and very cliquey.

Any exciting new awards you are entertaining ideas on?

Thanks,
Krash

Hi Krash! Miss you too.

I genuinely hate that idea of GMs voting for Best GM from their peers. Part of this comes from the horror stories like "The Season of No Awards ™" where petty bullshit between two teams kept the ENTIRE LEAGUE from getting awards because they refused to vote (at that point, SMJHL GMs voted for all awards). Also, more recently/specifically, certain GMs won't nominate one of their own players to give them more recognition with the Onoprienko. If they won't take the maybe 5 minutes it would take to nominate one of their players, then I don't trust them to take the time to put a quality ballot forward for Best GM.

Nope, I think we're in a good spot for the current awards. I would like to see the committee roll with the changes I've made recently and reevaluate down the road.

11-25-2020, 09:11 PMjeffie43 Wrote: 1. Obviously there are conflicts that happen often when debating who wins what award, which one was the worst to deal with during your time as Awards Head?

2. Who's been the easiest GM to work with, what about the worst?

3. What's something that you're excited for in the future? SHL/SMJHL whatever

Thanks jeffie!

1. I think, really without a moment's thought, the worst was pretty much everything to do with the S54 Awards. That was, bar none, the most controversial season and the one where people were the most upset about things. I can honestly say that, while the job has been less fun for me since that season, good things have come in the aftermath. Some Newfoundland-adjacent folks were VERY upset with me and my committee (but seemingly mostly me), especially about the Fallah (Regular Season MVP). It was the most contentious and wide open MVP vote of my career that I can think of; 11 players appeared on ballots, 6 getting 1st place votes. In general that was one of our more wide open seasons across the board. I got a lot of feedback given in a lot of different ways, and I appreciate that feedback. It still sucked in the moment for all involved. I think we've been able to remedy many of the concerns over time about that show and how things went down. In general, I don't recommend or wish that on anyone else.

2. I'm not touching the second half of that question in a public forum. I get frustrated when I hear GMs shit talk me and the work my awards committee does but don't bother to talk with me about anything or raise their concerns (nor share nominations for the Onoprienko to recognize their players). I don't think the "me first and fuck y'all" mentality has any place in the SMJHL.

Now, there are also GMs I really enjoyed working with from an awards perspective. @FuzzSHL in Carolina and @notorioustig in Detroit were always very communicative about things, both with nominations as well as when they disliked something. Everyone always feels like their players get snubbed come awards time; we only have so many people who can win, so in the end that means there's a lot of folks who can't win. Fuzz and tig, when they had questions or wanted to push back on my process (the S53 Fallah vote for Tig comes to mind immediately), always would reach out to me to talk about it. I respect that, and I feel they respected me. In the end, we may not have agreed about the result of the vote, but I think they respected the process we used as a committee to get there. They also gave me grace when I messed things up (it happens, and then we fix it for the next season). Usually I hear from 2-3 GMs per season about nominations and I take the time to discuss the results with them.

3. Idk man, I've made a bunch of changes to the SMJHL Awards since I took over abruptly in S48. I'm proud of that; we have a few new awards and some that got facelifts with new names. It'll be interesting to see how the shift to a 66 game schedule rebalances things. I'm also eager to see, moreso as a player, how the cap change rules rebalance things in another 2ish seasons once teams like Hamilton no longer benefit for incredibly unbalanced contracts from the old system. Other than that, with real life stuff and site stuff, I'm sort of hitting a lull in my excitement and energy. I don't know what's next for me on the site, but I'm hopeful Cassius Darrow can get some hardware eventually. He's been a good player for awhile now, and it hasn't amounted to much individual recognition quite yet. A few noms or a win would do a lot for a HoF career (which I think Darrow's definitely in the realm of).

11-25-2020, 09:20 PMSivart Wrote: Can you give a brief overview of the awards to be won for us newbies?

For sure! SMJHL rookies are the only one's eligible for the Anrikkanen Trophy, for the best rookie. That's a pretty obvious one. Beyond that, rookies are eligible for every other award. Because of TPE levels, it's incredibly rare to see a rookie up for the MVPs or some of the other most outstanding, but it happens. We've had a few goalies come in hot and win best goalie immediately. The only other award that rookies can't win is the most improved, the Alex Light Trophy. You only have the current season, so you can't win that award. Beyond the Anrikkanen, depending on your role/build/etc, awards like Most Dedicated, Most Underrated, Most Sportsmanlike are all awards I see rookies contend for regularly. The SMJHL Awards subforum is a great place for new users to learn more about the site!

11-25-2020, 09:20 PMSivart Wrote: What is your personal favourite award handed out?

My favorite award to give out... hmm.... Well, I do love the Holmes (Best Defensive Forward) and the new Metzler (Best Defensive Defenseman). I think those sorts of players get overlooked a lot, and I respect the hell out of people who choose to build their player in a way to thrive in aspects outside of scoring goals. Beyond that, I think the Vyacheslav Onoprienko Trophy (Most Underrated) is one of my favorites to give out. It was an award that was all over the place when I took over (to the point where we had like 17 people voted for and 9 different 1st place votes one season). I wanted to help us refocus, as I knew I wasn't going to have much success getting 9 people on the committee to agree on what "most underrated" means. So instead, I changed the paradigm. Instead of the awards committee making nominations, I thought who better to recognize that which is "underrated" than the juniors' GMs themselves. Since S49 I think, SMJHL GMs have nominated one player from their roster and sent me a few sentence blurb on why that player is underrated. The committee reviews that list of 8-12 nominees (some GMs don't do it) and then votes for each of our top 3 (more on that process soon). They share things the committee couldn't possibly know about how the players interact in their locker rooms, which we definitely like to see.

11-25-2020, 09:20 PMSivart Wrote: Who votes on them?

We have a committee of 9 users hired by me who vote each season. They have to submit ballots of their top 3 for each award, with some explanations. I require 4 awards a season (which the committee knows in advance) that they have to submit an explanation for. Many fill out with explanations for every award every season, others do a mixed bag. Then I calculate the winners using our scoring system: 5 points for a 1st place vote, 3 points for a 2nd place vote, and 1 point for a 3rd place vote. From there, I look at how the vote totals boil out to decide where the finalists cutoff will be. Usually, there's a group of 3-4 that are ahead of the rest, so I make those the finalists. Some seasons (like last year for the Holmes and Anrikkanen), there's a clear top 2 that makes it hard to justify a third finalist. For example, last year the top two for the Holmes and Anrikkanen each received 66/81 total votes between them. The other nominees got between 1-6 votes, so no one really stood out as a third finalist.

Anytime I have someone who steps down or I fire (it's happened), I make a hiring post where I ask for applications. I've always given preference to newer users without a bunch of jobs, as I think SMJHL Awards can be a good starting place on the site. I try to keep some degree of informal balance as best I can, and usually I'm able to hire someone newer to the site each time I need to do hiring. This season, there will be a lot of new hires to come!

11-25-2020, 09:20 PMSivart Wrote: On a scale of always-to-everytime, how often do people feel snubbed?

Every damn time. Go read the award show thread seasonally and you'll see first hand. There's only so many awards and spots for finalists, so it's inevitable someone who feels deserving of recognition doesn't get it. Usually, I agree that they deserve recognition, even if I don't think they deserved the award over the eventual winner. There's only so many votes to go around. I've thought about changing to ask the committee to nominate a top 5 for each award, but I'm not sure the extra votes/granular look would really outweigh the extra work for the committee.

11-25-2020, 09:57 PMTroy_McClure03 Wrote: I've been a fixture in this league for so long,why is it that I'm not an award yet?

I don't mean my name, I mean me as the award.

Thx.

You are a person. You are not an object, so you cannot be an award. Unless....?

Beyond that, I'm really not sure. Awards are tied to player names, not people themselves. I think many people would freak out if you popped out of a box at their home. Plus, wouldn't your children miss you?

11-25-2020, 09:52 PMbdu754 Wrote: hey how do you get the beeg yoshi? thank you.

I have no idea. I've been trying for near on two decades to find a beeg yoshi. Instead, I keep finding scary green dinosaurs that eat my chickens. My first two wives left me because there was no more food. I will keep chasing the beeg yoshi, even if it destroys me.

Can you help me find one?

11-25-2020, 09:39 PMJumbobone19 Wrote: What is/was the hardest award to vote on?

What was the closest award voting you have seen?

What do you enjoy most about being the awards head?

Most Dedicated. How do you measure that? Is it just people who jump at jobs? Highest earners (we haven't done that in decades tbh)? Great media? Other stuff? It's hard to say. We talk every season about not wanting to give people the "double benefit" of getting paid for site jobs AND then winning awards. It's tricky as hell. There's not a perfect answer, but as imperfect humans we do the best we can. If only I could get the stink of @JumpierPegasus off the award. Wink

Well we had a deadass tie last season for the Harrak (GM of the Year) between Anchorage and Newfoundland--same points, same 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place votes. There have also been seasons (ahem, like this one) where the winner of an award wins one by A SINGLE VOTE, or last season's playoff MVP where first through third were separated by like 3 votes. We've had some crazy close votes! I'm waiting for the day where I get a public Lindsay vote that comes down to only a few votes. Hasn't happened yet. Usually the LIndsay voting is a runaway for someone.

I like leading the recognition efforts for the J. It's great to help recognize people doing good stuff in our stupid little D&D hockey league. Especially with newer users, I enjoy giving them something else to help their immersion. I've been able to push a lot of things that didn't exist before I was head, and BadWolf's trust in me is welcomed and appreciated a ton. I don't think I'd be able to be as aggressive with new stuff without her backing.

11-26-2020, 12:35 AMmee Wrote: Why did I not win all the awards?

Why did I not win some awards?

Why did I not win any awards?
-----

Ok for real now, what is a most improved player? Stats? Activity? Both? Something else?

We haven't announced finalists yet, so you don't know that you haven't been nominated for an award this season. @Inf1d3l should post the finalists soon, as the show is this weekend! Smile

More or less, the Light has been a stats-driven award in its two seasons. I don't know of a great way to track activity in that way that wouldn't involve a huge amount of extra work for us and detract from other things. It's similar to the challenges we have with Most Dedicated--without someone actively tracking certain things, it's hard to keep up on everything that happens on the site. We try our best, but it's a tricky one. If you have ideas for most improved that can be done in a constructive way to include something other than stats, I'm happy to hear those ideas out. My DMs are open! Smile

11-26-2020, 02:49 PMtrashae Wrote: With FHM game ratings being a controversial topic how much weight do you think they should be given for award consideration?

We don't use them at all. Got some strong negative feedback after the S53 awards, and we have since not used them for any purpose. They don't really mean much of anything that can be generalized, so I ignore them.

11-27-2020, 09:34 PMFuzzSHL Wrote: Both leagues have a sort of “issue” in voting differences when it has come to the “All-League/All-Rookie” teams. We have seen this when the awards committee and all-star committee disagreed on the top rookie in the J a few seasons ago (awards committee awarded top rookie to someone who didn’t make the all-rookie team) and in the SHL with the Vilde/Booth debate. Have you had any ideas as to how the two committees in both leagues could come to a more uniformed decision? Or do you think it’s actually a good thing that the committees disagree?

Hi Fuzz! Thanks for the question. I don't think it's a big deal when the committees aren't in alignment. I know it's something that has been on your mind a lot the last few seasons, but it isn't something I particularly worry about. They are two different groups, and I'd like to keep it that way to avoid groupthink. It's rare that one person is head and shoulders above everyone else where things should be unanimous (in fact, I think the SHL has a problem with always making the top scorer the MVP), so I think it's a good thing that we do our things and recognize people to potentially differing levels.

It might be helpful to combine efforts regarding creating a sheet of more expansive stats, but beyond that I like that the committees draw their own conclusions most of the time. It's no secret there are some cases/allegations regularly that certain members of committees have some partisan slants to their votes. I would be happy if HO wanted to investigate all the teams to look into those allegations, as I don't think it's as huge an issue for SMJHL Awards as it is on say SHL All-Star Committee or Hall of Fame Committee.

11-30-2020, 03:12 PMMazatt Wrote: How exciting is it that there has been no public outcry due to SMJHL awards this season? (yet)

Kind of building off of that, how did you feel about the Awards presentation as a whole? Be it the stream, or the voting process, maybe the surprises for you personally in voting, anything.

Follow-up to my last set of questions; is it not jarring for you that on specific songs in E Mo Tion there are backing lines that sound like children? For example, Run Away With Me, probably my favourite song from CRJ that you have opened my eyes to, in the chorus after a line ends there wil be a higher pitched, echoed "Run away with me" (x2) that doesn't seem to vibe with the song and always takes me out of it in the peak of the emotion surrounding the song. I'd just like your thoughts on that

I cannot express how good it feels to not have a public outcry. Usually I got a few GMs in my DMs after the show with questions or pushing back. Usually nothing bad, but some sort of feedback or frustration to address. This season, there's been none of that, either, which is WEIRD for me. I won't complain and just enjoy the quiet Smile

I really like the stream. I'm sad that Inf1d3l told me this would be his last season running the show. I think he's done a great job, and adding a cohost in Wally has been really good for the both of them. I think the addition of some extra back end graphics support from the new Events team could be really good for us, as we don't have an in house person to do a lot of graphics stuff. Beyond that, I've been very process-focused as Awards Head, and think voting wise we're doing pretty well. Sure, I think we can tend to overweigh the top scorer for the Agante and to some extent starting that way with the Light, and the new Harrak is a work in progress, but overall we're doing well.

I'm always interested to see which award is the one where I'm out of line with "collective thought" of other committee members, as well as seeing who are major outliers/weird votes. It makes for an interesting time. For example, no one else voted for Zelma Zuntnere this season for the Ron Bolt, but I threw them on my ballot because they were doing some pretty impressive stuff. I think we had good finalists for it, even if all my votes aren't finalists. That happens, and it doesn't press me too bad.

Now, back to Queen Carly. I don't hear it as children, that's an interesting take I hadn't noticed before. I don't think the backing vocals (most of which I think might be CRJ herself) take me out of it, at all. It's just part of the vibe for the song as good ass pop music.

Thanks for the questions, Mazatt!

Quote:Just about ready for grading? Yeah, I think so.

Snoopdogg · 11-23-2020, 08:20 PM

can i have an award?

Arkz · 11-23-2020, 08:24 PM

STOP THE COUNT!

(For real though its unlucky but makes sense in the context of the decision. I don't think I would have won this award at all had I been nominated, so its no big deal and HHH was very open and honest when he explained this to me. All support from my side!)

Mazatt · 11-23-2020, 08:36 PM

Is it difficult to be so open about the awards process, voting, and general decision making with it?

How do you feel the recent awards that we're added have helped satisfy the people? Any thoughts of adding more strict stats awards, or if there are anymore stats worth recognizing?

How can E-mo-tion be the best pop album? To be more precise, how does the banger that is E-mo-tion hoist up the rest of the record?

*Katth* · 11-24-2020, 02:56 AM

@Titan

S50 Challenge Cup Finals Game 7
[Image: gNFVjT6.png]

CementHands · 11-24-2020, 11:49 AM

Hey HHH, miss you in GM chat, but you are doing good work around the site.
What are your thoughts about the GM award being voted on by GMs? I feel there is a lot of behind the scenes things that get missed by committee (or I could be way out to lunch). This can also open a can of worms, as GM's are horrible human beings, and very cliquey.

Any exciting new awards you are entertaining ideas on?

Thanks,
Krash

hhh81 · 11-24-2020, 08:26 PM

Answered* to here!

*Mazatt had to ask me about CRJ, and I will oblige.

*jeffie43* · 11-25-2020, 09:11 PM

Obviously there are conflicts that happen often when debating who wins what award, which one was the worst to deal with during your time as Awards Head?

Who's been the easiest GM to work with, what about the worst?

What's something that you're excited for in the future? SHL/SMJHL whatever

Nour is pretty hot ngl

Sivart · 11-25-2020, 09:20 PM

Can you give a brief overview of the awards to be won for us newbies?

What is your personal favourite award handed out?

Who votes on them?

On a scale of always-to-everytime, how often do people feel snubbed?

***Jumbo*** · 11-25-2020, 09:39 PM

What is/was the hardest award to vote on?

What was the closest award voting you have seen?

What do you enjoy most about being the awards head?

***yosh*** · 11-25-2020, 09:52 PM

hey how do you get the beeg yoshi? thank you.

Troy_McClure03 · 11-25-2020, 09:57 PM

I've been a fixture in this league for so long,why is it that I'm not an award yet?

I don't mean my name, I mean me as the award.

Thx.

***yosh*** · 11-25-2020, 11:03 PM

I Will help you find the beeg yoshi, i just need the three digits on the back of your credit card /s

For legal reasons that’s a joke

mee · 11-26-2020, 12:35 AM

Why did I not win all the awards?

Why did I not win some awards?

Why did I not win any awards?
-----

Ok for real now, what is a most improved player? Stats? Activity? Both? Something else?

hhh81 · 11-26-2020, 11:55 AM

updated to here!

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