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*Katth* · 02-04-2021, 04:01 AM

02-04-2021, 03:17 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: This is the entire point of the changes. Teams need to choose between roster players and prospects. If teams choose the roster player then they need to find a new team through FA.

If those players aren't find teams it sounds to me like we need more teams (I already thought this).

Or we need 4th lines...

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***Tomen*** · 02-04-2021, 08:48 AM

02-04-2021, 03:17 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: This is the entire point of the changes. Teams need to choose between roster players and prospects. If teams choose the roster player then they need to find a new team through FA.

If those players aren't find teams it sounds to me like we need more teams (I already thought this).

This here 100% the contract changes were exactly meant to have situations like this happening . If there aren't enough spots we need more (we broke 400 replies to an AC for the first time in site history last week.)

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3. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 5 (Maximilian Wachter, Alexis Metzler) at 16:25
5. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 6 (Steven Stamkos Jr., Brynjar Tusk) at 19:48
8. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 7 (Brynjar Tusk, Alexis Metzler) at 13:55
9. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 8 (Anton Fedorov, Mikelis Grundmanis) at 15:12
10. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 9 (Dickie Pecker) at 19:43 (Empty Net)

***Acsolap*** · 02-04-2021, 08:59 AM

02-04-2021, 03:17 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: This is the entire point of the changes. Teams need to choose between roster players and prospects. If teams choose the roster player then they need to find a new team through FA.

If those players aren't find teams it sounds to me like we need more teams (I already thought this).

Yea exactly this. I'm willing to bet there's a bunch of teams out there paying IAs who could snap up these prospects or we simply need more teams in the league. It shouldn't be up to HO to manage teams assets for them.

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***Acsolap*** · 02-04-2021, 09:03 AM

02-04-2021, 04:01 AMKatth Wrote:
02-04-2021, 03:17 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: This is the entire point of the changes. Teams need to choose between roster players and prospects. If teams choose the roster player then they need to find a new team through FA.

If those players aren't find teams it sounds to me like we need more teams (I already thought this).

Or we need 4th lines...

How do you expect teams to pay for three more roster slots?

Also you're conveniently forgetting that no one wants to play on the 4th line.

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***goldenglutes*** · 02-04-2021, 09:04 AM

02-04-2021, 03:17 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: This is the entire point of the changes. Teams need to choose between roster players and prospects. If teams choose the roster player then they need to find a new team through FA.

If those players aren't find teams it sounds to me like we need more teams (I already thought this).

100%, one of the major points of the cap changes/current cap crunch is to make super teams (HAM/BUF/etc) decide between maintaining their team and drafting/signing prospects. Another important thing to note about lack of space for prospects is that a lot of teams are still running IFAs, likely because the update scale is too harsh and prospects don't want to be called up early to get dumped on in the big league. This is already being addressed with upcoming update scale changes. Once players are more comfortable with being called up early, there will have fewer IFAs and most teams will have more room for prospects. Hopefully this should be sorted by next season.

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***golden_apricot*** · 02-04-2021, 09:09 AM

02-04-2021, 03:17 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: This is the entire point of the changes. Teams need to choose between roster players and prospects. If teams choose the roster player then they need to find a new team through FA.

If those players aren't find teams it sounds to me like we need more teams (I already thought this).

This, your team being in cap hell is a result of you having success, and the cap changes were made you you have to leverage current dominance vs the future of the franchise. If you dont have the space for prospects in the cap you should be forced to either trade the picks or the prospects (I think this should have been the case for awhile and didnt like when buffalo had like 5 unsigned prospects a few seasons ago, although that worked out really well for the site rep of a few of those guys). This is what the cap change was suppose to do as you stated and you should have seen more major changes this season but will for sure see them by s61 (this is where ham and buff project to hit the wall hard afaik).

Now for new teams there is a good case for that i think, just looking at the leveling of teams in a smaller tournament like IIHF suggests that there are more active players in the league now than there were even 2 seasons ago. Anyone who wants 4th lines is a moron it would be better to add more teams (I think we get new playoff options too at 20 which would be great) the question becomes when does this happen, probably around this summer imo we need to seriously talk about that or around the time we discuss moving up in game engine to fhm7 if we do decide to go down that route. Increasing the cap is another horrible idea since that just means super teams exist for a longer term than they do now since from someone on a team also up against the cap, the moves we have to make to try and stay cap compliant forces player movement which is overall a good thing IMO.

caltroit_red_flames · 02-04-2021, 11:06 AM

Wake up to 5 alerts
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It's not people flaming me for a brain dead take
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***golden_apricot*** · 02-04-2021, 11:14 AM

02-04-2021, 11:06 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: Wake up to 5 alerts

It's not people flaming me for a brain dead take

nah i think most people are in agreement with your thoughts here, maybe not the expansion idea right away with the other changes in the pipeline but you are right on target with your thoughts on the matter imo

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 02-04-2021, 11:28 AM

I generally agree with the argument that the point of prospects being relatively costly cap-wise is to force good teams to decide between competing now and investing in the future, so that it wouldn't be possible to have an all-star roster while also having five bluechip prospects in the pipeline. The system has always been set up to work that way btw, this has been the line of thinking behind this since way before the most recent cap changes and it generally makes sense.

However I am wondering if we are taking it a bit too far at this point, if even middle of the pack and weaker teams are not able to hold on to their prospects for that reason. It makes me wonder if we need to give a little more relief in regards to prospect cap-hits or at least push the point where they become a considerable cap-factor back a few seasons, to the point where they actually start contending for roster spots.

This could lead to some interesting decisions down the line. Let's say prospects would only carry a minimal cap-hit of say 1-2M while on their ELC, but then jump up to around 3M or more when they are up for their next contract. This would be exactly the time where most of them start contending for SHL roster spots which I think would be a great time to start spreading the wealth. Prospects would get time to develop without being a detriment to their team in terms of cap-space, but then start to become a cap-factor once they also become a useful on-ice asset for ther SHL-squad.

It would force great teams with minimal cap-space but a bunch of good prospects that are coming off ELC's to decide whether they wanna keep those prospects or hold on to their older players who are high-TPE and maybe in regression already. If they decide to hold on to the prospects, they will be able to expand their contention cycle but will be less dominant in the short term. If they keep their old players and decide to let their young guys walk then they will be able to stay dominant a bit longer, but at the risk of their contention window slamming shut sooner. Both scenarios would be good for league parity though as talent gets spread around more evenly.

This is basically how the cap is supposed to work already, but I think we could make it more targeted and efficient by tying prospects cap-hits to their ELC-status. While on their ELC, they don't carry a big cap hit and teams, be they good or bad, can afford to cultivate and develop them, but as soon as they become useful SHL-assets, their cap-hit needs to become a significant factor right away to accomplish the desired effects of the cap.

Then again expansion is also a good option and definitely the more exciting one so if the numbers are there for it, we should definitely explore that idea as well. Especially since it would help with the current messed up playoff format.

ml002 · 02-04-2021, 11:33 AM

02-04-2021, 11:06 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: Wake up to 5 alerts

It's not people flaming me for a brain dead take

Bad take tbh pretty brain dead

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***golden_apricot*** · 02-04-2021, 11:40 AM

02-04-2021, 11:28 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: This could lead to some interesting decisions down the line. Let's say prospects would only carry a minimal cap-hit of say 1-2M while on their ELC, but then jump up to around 3M or more when they are up for their next contract. This would be exactly the time where most of them start contending for SHL roster spots which I think would be a great time to start spreading the wealth. Prospects would get time to develop without being a detriment to their team in terms of cap-space, but then start to become a cap-factor once they also become a useful on-ice asset for ther SHL-squad.

this is already the case though, send downs carry a 500k + any value over 2.5M cap hit. So a send down on 2.5M counts only as 500k, where a rookie at 3M carries a 1M cap hit. So teams do get that relief. It also gives rebuilding teams the ability to a sizeable contract to their rookies as they dont have a bulk of 6M contracts on the books. Are their ways to improve things? Probably, but right now send downs already offer a 2M cap break and changing this just makes it far easier to maintain an elite level team.

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 02-04-2021, 11:43 AM

02-04-2021, 11:40 AMgolden_apricot Wrote:
02-04-2021, 11:28 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: This could lead to some interesting decisions down the line. Let's say prospects would only carry a minimal cap-hit of say 1-2M while on their ELC, but then jump up to around 3M or more when they are up for their next contract. This would be exactly the time where most of them start contending for SHL roster spots which I think would be a great time to start spreading the wealth. Prospects would get time to develop without being a detriment to their team in terms of cap-space, but then start to become a cap-factor once they also become a useful on-ice asset for ther SHL-squad.

this is already the case though, send downs carry a 500k + any value over 2.5M cap hit. So a send down on 2.5M counts only as 500k, where a rookie at 3M carries a 1M cap hit. So teams do get that relief. It also gives rebuilding teams the ability to a sizeable contract to their rookies as they dont have a bulk of 6M contracts on the books. Are their ways to improve things? Probably, but right now send downs already offer a 2M cap break and changing this just makes it far easier to maintain an elite level team.

Oh they do? Then nevermind, this seems like a system that should be working well enough then. If we still end up without enough room for all the young players then I guess expansion would be the way to go in this case.

***Tomen*** · 02-04-2021, 11:47 AM

02-04-2021, 11:28 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: However I am wondering if we are taking it a bit too far at this point, if even middle of the pack and weaker teams are not able to hold on to their prospects for that reason. It makes me wonder if we need to give a little more relief in regards to prospect cap-hits or at least push the point where they become a considerable cap-factor back a few seasons, to the point where they actually start contending for roster spots.

I am going to respond to this snippet. The 2 people that I am aware of that seem to fit the description that Naosu meant in the OP are Turg and Rikki Petrov. Turg just was lower TPE than anyone else on the TBB roster so they decided to let him go and they found a home in FA. Petrov was let go to FA because EDM hat to eat the 12m cap fine. So I think so far there was no "natural" instance of middle of the pack and weaker teams having to part ways with actively updating senddowns. It was either a case of lower TPE than anyone else on roster once they were waiver claimable or being fucked by a Cap fine.

Thank you all for the amazing sigs & player cards
Germany

3. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 5 (Maximilian Wachter, Alexis Metzler) at 16:25
5. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 6 (Steven Stamkos Jr., Brynjar Tusk) at 19:48
8. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 7 (Brynjar Tusk, Alexis Metzler) at 13:55
9. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 8 (Anton Fedorov, Mikelis Grundmanis) at 15:12
10. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 9 (Dickie Pecker) at 19:43 (Empty Net)

Keygan · 02-04-2021, 12:26 PM

02-04-2021, 11:47 AMTomen Wrote:
02-04-2021, 11:28 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: However I am wondering if we are taking it a bit too far at this point, if even middle of the pack and weaker teams are not able to hold on to their prospects for that reason. It makes me wonder if we need to give a little more relief in regards to prospect cap-hits or at least push the point where they become a considerable cap-factor back a few seasons, to the point where they actually start contending for roster spots.

I am going to respond to this snippet. The 2 people that I am aware of that seem to fit the description that Naosu meant in the OP are Turg and Rikki Petrov. Turg just was lower TPE than anyone else on the TBB roster so they decided to let him go and they found a home in FA. Petrov was let go to FA because EDM hat to eat the 12m cap fine. So I think so far there was no "natural" instance of middle of the pack and weaker teams having to part ways with actively updating senddowns. It was either a case of lower TPE than anyone else on roster once they were waiver claimable or being fucked by a Cap fine.

12.5m

And we could have resigned Rikki, he just opted for the 3m offer over the 2.5m offer we had.

***golden_apricot*** · 02-04-2021, 12:28 PM

02-04-2021, 12:26 PMKeygan Wrote:
02-04-2021, 11:47 AMTomen Wrote: I am going to respond to this snippet. The 2 people that I am aware of that seem to fit the description that Naosu meant in the OP are Turg and Rikki Petrov. Turg just was lower TPE than anyone else on the TBB roster so they decided to let him go and they found a home in FA. Petrov was let go to FA because EDM hat to eat the 12m cap fine. So I think so far there was no "natural" instance of middle of the pack and weaker teams having to part ways with actively updating senddowns. It was either a case of lower TPE than anyone else on roster once they were waiver claimable or being fucked by a Cap fine.

12.5m

And we could have resigned Rikki, he just opted for the 3m offer over the 2.5m offer we had.

get fucked tomen, next time get it right

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