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trella · 05-23-2022, 05:05 PM

@Hallsy @RotticusScott and other Hammy guys,

You know I think highly of all of you, but its pretty hard not to feel the sentiments that other people have. I have defended you guys in private many times. I don’t know what you guys have going on behind the scenes in terms of testing or any basis of “cheating” or whatever.

What I do believe is that your team’s philosophy and outlook on the league is harmful. The SHL is supposed to be a be a pro experience. That’s at least what made me love this league and stay for as long as I have. I feel like the way you guys run things takes that away. Yes, your locker room is bumping all the time and you guys are a great group and great people, no matter what people say about you personally, but I feel that your attitude towards team building and player building is all wrong.

Rotti, I don’t know how you can say there is a “correct” build. That doesn’t exist. The only correct build is the build that best emulates the player that people WANT to build. When people ask for help on their builds, you should be asking, “okay, what type of player do you want to build?” and you should be giving advice based on that response.

I feel like I’m being fair when I say that I built a great squad in Tampa. But you know what? I never had any chance to win because I’m not as cold and ruthless as you guys are. I never told my players to build a certain way, only tried to guide them towards the type of player they wanted to be. I guess that’s my own shortcomings in the current landscape of the league but I strongly feel that it shouldn’t be like that.

I think that these factors are ultimately what made me quit GMing and become inactive here. I’m not a part of the “in group” so I will never succeed here. It just becomes a waste of time. There is no hope for anyone in this league besides the top 4 teams. Its not all Hamilton’s fault but I do think that your actions have had major negative consequences on the league. Whether or not you believe they are true is kind of irrelevant at this point. You see how people feel, you see how this league has changed. Even if you think people’s points are stupid, they are still causing long term members to leave this league.

I hope that you guys actually read this and know that I’m being as sincere and genuine as possible. This isn’t coming from a place of anger or hatred towards you guys, I’m sure you guys know that.

Thanks to @karey and @JSS for the sigs!

Former USA Fed Head, Carolina Kraken Co-GM, Tampa Bay Barracuda GM

Samsung virtual assistant · 05-23-2022, 05:18 PM

05-21-2022, 07:13 PMJobin Wrote:
05-21-2022, 06:45 PMSlashACM Wrote: Because anyone with a functioning brain can see how putting a player at 4C is entirely different than regressing 100s of tpe out of passing
Yeah, one was against the rule book and the other was what Hamilton did.

Yeah, one was against the rule book and the other was a game-breaking exploit that forced us to move to a new sim engine pre-emptively, which was what Hamilton did.

BarnabasCollins · 05-24-2022, 10:18 AM

Red and Cuddles completely nailed it with their takes

Mooty99 · 05-24-2022, 11:46 AM

Probably a stupid question, but if everyone builds the same because of the meta why are archetypes not created like in ISFL and PBE? There archetypes are set and then tweaked to ensure that all are evenly used. I have always wondered by SHL does not do this

***CampinKiller*** · 05-24-2022, 11:51 AM

05-24-2022, 11:46 AMMooty99 Wrote: Probably a stupid question, but if everyone builds the same because of the meta why are archetypes not created like in ISFL and PBE? There archetypes are set and then tweaked to ensure that all are evenly used. I have always wondered by SHL does not do this

The last time I suggested this, or something similar, everyone said “there’s still meta builds in PBE” and “everyone just chooses filthy SP/circle change God and/or the freak”

***CampinKiller*** · 05-24-2022, 11:51 AM

Mobile double post yay

Mooty99 · 05-24-2022, 11:58 AM

05-24-2022, 11:51 AMCampinKiller Wrote:
05-24-2022, 11:46 AMMooty99 Wrote: Probably a stupid question, but if everyone builds the same because of the meta why are archetypes not created like in ISFL and PBE? There archetypes are set and then tweaked to ensure that all are evenly used. I have always wondered by SHL does not do this

The last time I suggested this, or something similar, everyone said “there’s still meta builds in PBE” and “everyone just chooses filthy SP/circle change God and/or the freak”

That sort of thing is easily fixed, I know in the ISFL they check how many people have created at each position and about every 5 seasons tweak the builds if types are more or less successful. It is a tough thing to create to start with but could certainly help the current situation. We can hope it might get reconsidered, bring it in with a new sim would be a perfect opportunity

Rotti · 05-24-2022, 05:48 PM

05-24-2022, 11:46 AMMooty99 Wrote: Probably a stupid question, but if everyone builds the same because of the meta why are archetypes not created like in ISFL and PBE? There archetypes are set and then tweaked to ensure that all are evenly used. I have always wondered by SHL does not do this

I think part of this is the 1-20 scale makes things look closer than they are in terms of a "meta". Over half the league has over 16 getting open right now, which sounds insane and like a meta for sure, but when you factor in the difference of 16 to 20 Getting Open being a range from 80-100 in ISFL and PBE it would make sense. I think a decent way to remedy this might be to increase the attribute cap, but I have no idea what that would look like or how those extremely high ratings (gretzky, mcdavid) affect the sim.

***hhh81*** · 05-24-2022, 07:36 PM

05-23-2022, 03:14 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: And I'm sorry but the "some GMs are just better at FHM than others" argument is just stupid because this is not supposed to be a GM league, it's a player league. The GMs role should be to enhance the experience of the players on their teams, to create a fun experience for everyone and then of course to also have an effect on how competitive the team is or isn't. It's supposed to be about the players and their contributions, it should matter if you build a 2000 TPE player, recruit three friends to your team and help build up a culture that others want to be a part of. That is the very core that the league used to be all about. But nowadays most of this is largely pointless because none of it matters unless you have a top-tier GM. And ultimately this isn't very fun because the players lose a lot of their agency. They are supposed to build their players in very specific ways and then have to find a way to get on one of the few teams that are even considered contenders going into a season, or spend their prime seasons in mediocrity. "Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" or however you say it is barely possible anymore. In the past you were able to turn a team around by being a great player and role model, you could pull a team from mediocrity to contender status by being the best version of yourself and inspiring others to do the same. You really can't do that anymore, you are left having to pray that your GM is Elite (because just being okay or good doesn't cut it). And if he isn't good enough you are essentially forced to give up on your team and try to join a contender (which is something we shouldn't want from a parity perspective), or stay loyal to your group and just never really have a chance to win anything both individually or as a team.

I've been sitting uncomfortable with grok's comment to this effect from a few days ago without the words to really explain why. This really hits it home for me. I was willing and enjoyed being a GM in STHS for this exact reason--this is the kind of role I find enjoyable and where I can be most useful. In FHM, it's all about the war games bullshit that takes the focus off the players and puts success almost solely into the GMs' hands. That's so frustrating and it literally killed the Baltimore war room to the point they had to hire my bum ass.

I was in Seattle's war room from the time it started up through leaving for BAP, and I to this day don't have a damn clue what the secret sauce is.

05-23-2022, 03:14 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Of course HO can do more, but they will always be limited by the culture of this league and what is deemed to be okay and what isn't. No matter what they do, it will be very hard for HO to get us anywhere on this as long as the prevailing mindset in this league (or at least among GMs) is "I will do everything to win and use every loophole and exploit I can find as long as it is not specifically illegal". There were always rivalries in this league, people who couldn't stand each other and teams that managed to build dynasties while others never really got anywhere - you can have all these things without going all in on the "Fuck everyone but us" mindset which has crept in over the last 15-20 seasons.

Not all GMs believe this, but enough do that it makes GMing downright unpleasant in the SHL. If I was feeling a bit spicier and thought it would be the least bit productive, I would start naming names versus tiptoeing around the shit enough people know about but no one wants to call out head on.

***HabsFanFromOntario*** · 05-24-2022, 08:15 PM

05-20-2022, 04:34 AMCitizen of Adraa Wrote: I will point out one thing - thanks to just how much GM turnover happened lately, at least the SHL GM chat has been surprisingly enjoyable lately. This statement will totally get challenged the moment someone does something over the line and an argument begins, but for now, I don't really remember GM chat being a place where people just came in and starting joking around and chatting up shit until now.

Yeah, it's because of the @Bfine @Toast sexual tension tbh

***Bfine*** · 05-24-2022, 10:01 PM

05-24-2022, 08:15 PMHabsFanFromOntario Wrote:
05-20-2022, 04:34 AMCitizen of Adraa Wrote: I will point out one thing - thanks to just how much GM turnover happened lately, at least the SHL GM chat has been surprisingly enjoyable lately. This statement will totally get challenged the moment someone does something over the line and an argument begins, but for now, I don't really remember GM chat being a place where people just came in and starting joking around and chatting up shit until now.

Yeah, it's because of the @Bfine @Toast sexual tension tbh

Too many people said they missed me after I left I had to go back tbh

Memento Mori · 05-25-2022, 05:51 AM

05-23-2022, 05:05 PMtrella Wrote: What I do believe is that your team’s philosophy and outlook on the league is harmful. The SHL is supposed to be a be a pro experience. That’s at least what made me love this league and stay for as long as I have. I feel like the way you guys run things takes that away. Yes, your locker room is bumping all the time and you guys are a great group and great people, no matter what people say about you personally, but I feel that your attitude towards team building and player building is all wrong.

Rotti, I don’t know how you can say there is a “correct” build. That doesn’t exist. The only correct build is the build that best emulates the player that people WANT to build. When people ask for help on their builds, you should be asking, “okay, what type of player do you want to build?” and you should be giving advice based on that response.

Maybe I'm being pedantic but SHL definitely isn't a be a pro experience, maybe it was once. I find sim leagues to be a very blank slate in terms of how they enable people to engage with them, even more so now that there's a web of affiliated sim leagues where many of us are in several of them. The way some people play represents that kind of experience, but you have users who neglect their own player and primarily want to GM/take on other important league jobs and you have players who are quite clearly here for the locker rooms/community rather than their player's success.

In other leagues I've had clear plans for my players, but I've never watched a hockey game - I joined because lots of my sim league friends said this was their favourite league, and that ties into the point about builds. I'm here for the locker rooms and every time I have sufficient TPE, I ask my GM how to spend it and ask them to build whatever player helps the team most. If someone asked me what type of player I wanted to build, I would have no idea. I just want to help the team.

I get why people like you and RED find the importance and influence of GMs frustrating, but I wonder how many people feel the same way as you and would prefer if it was more individualistic.

PremierBromanov · 05-25-2022, 01:14 PM

I'm not able to read through this entire thing right now, so I apologize If Im re-treading ground or being slightly obtuse because of it. But, i wanted to share my short-lived experience and perspective with being a GM (and somewhat longer with being a Fed Head).

I see a lot of GMs complain about time, namely not having enough. And please note, when i say complain I mean it only as the literal meaning of it. I'm not trying to paint a picture of whiney GMs. But, Time. I think they have it backwards and I think that's a compounding factor with FHM and Parity/HAM.

I don't think it's any secret that I want the season way shorter. Like, way way shorter. Like, 4 weeks front to back. Blam, new season. What I want coupled with that time "crunch" is a lack of possibility to spend all that time. Because the reason GMs want more time to test, more time to scout, more time for trades is because the implication of any given move as a GM is potential YEARS of your life. The players know this too. They know that when they sign a contract, it's sometimes for the next 3 seasons, which could be anywhere from 18 weeks to 24 weeks. Half the year. They know that to spend their career with a team is to have the next 2 years on the line (or more). They know that when you draft someone, when you trade for someone, it has far reaching implications.

All this to say, every single move you make MATTERS. A LOT. It matters too much, i think. This is the key issue with FHM testing and Parity/HAM (hereafter referred to as PHAM). Would it really upset people that much if hamilton won 5 cups in a row if that investment was only 5 months as opposed to 1 year? Would it be that bad if your team got upset in the playoffs if you had another coming down the pipe in 4 weeks? Would it bother people if they drafted a bust if their players careers only lasted 12 to 18 months, as opposed to 24 to 36?

The solution is not to expand the length of seasons to give GMs more time for testing, more time for scouting, more time for trades. The solution is to reduce how much the SHL matters in our lives.

The SHL should be FUN.

Do you guys remember that? The feeling that anything could happen, the feeling that there was a depth to the league that couldn't be conceived? And how you feel now, now that you know how the sausage is made? Now that you know you can't just draft fun, dedicated earners, you have to also sim a playoff game 100 times every other day?

I'll be real with you, i broke down because I felt like I was letting everyone down, or because I felt like I was going to if I didn't get it right. I felt like I had to sim for hours every night to give us the cutting edge of success, the best possible combo (it was always copy ham strats anyway). I felt like others' enjoyment of the league was dependent on how well I did my job. I don't think I'm alone in that.

We have to strip down the season. There needs to be less to do and less on the line. No one needs to sim that much during the regular season, they shouldn't even have the opportunity. They shouldn't even have the opportunity to sim between playoff games. It's too much. You shouldn't have to do a background check on your draft picks to make sure your locker room stays at optimal engagement and enjoyment.

This is saying nothing of how little room there is for casual play in this league, or how people are using HAM as a lightning rod because they're one of a few professional teams in a league of amateurs. The league needs to take itself less seriously. Otherwise, there will only be room for one type of user, and it's the type that all of you seem to hate.

**brickwall35** · 05-25-2022, 01:26 PM

05-25-2022, 01:14 PMPremierBromanov Wrote: I'm not able to read through this entire thing right now, so I apologize If Im re-treading ground or being slightly obtuse because of it. But, i wanted to share my short-lived experience and perspective with being a GM (and somewhat longer with being a Fed Head).

I see a lot of GMs complain about time, namely not having enough. And please note, when i say complain I mean it only as the literal meaning of it. I'm not trying to paint a picture of whiney GMs. But, Time. I think they have it backwards and I think that's a compounding factor with FHM and Parity/HAM.

I don't think it's any secret that I want the season way shorter. Like, way way shorter. Like, 4 weeks front to back. Blam, new season. What I want coupled with that time "crunch" is a lack of possibility to spend all that time. Because the reason GMs want more time to test, more time to scout, more time for trades is because the implication of any given move as a GM is potential YEARS of your life. The players know this too. They know that when they sign a contract, it's sometimes for the next 3 seasons, which could be anywhere from 18 weeks to 24 weeks. Half the year. They know that to spend their career with a team is to have the next 2 years on the line (or more). They know that when you draft someone, when you trade for someone, it has far reaching implications.

All this to say, every single move you make MATTERS. A LOT. It matters too much, i think. This is the key issue with FHM testing and Parity/HAM (hereafter referred to as PHAM). Would it really upset people that much if hamilton won 5 cups in a row if that investment was only 5 months as opposed to 1 year? Would it be that bad if your team got upset in the playoffs if you had another coming down the pipe in 4 weeks? Would it bother people if they drafted a bust if their players careers only lasted 12 to 18 months, as opposed to 24 to 36?

The solution is not to expand the length of seasons to give GMs more time for testing, more time for scouting, more time for trades. The solution is to reduce how much the SHL matters in our lives.

The SHL should be FUN.

Do you guys remember that? The feeling that anything could happen, the feeling that there was a depth to the league that couldn't be conceived? And how you feel now, now that you know how the sausage is made? Now that you know you can't just draft fun, dedicated earners, you have to also sim a playoff game 100 times every other day?

I'll be real with you, i broke down because I felt like I was letting everyone down, or because I felt like I was going to if I didn't get it right. I felt like I had to sim for hours every night to give us the cutting edge of success, the best possible combo (it was always copy ham strats anyway). I felt like others' enjoyment of the league was dependent on how well I did my job. I don't think I'm alone in that.

We have to strip down the season. There needs to be less to do and less on the line. No one needs to sim that much during the regular season, they shouldn't even have the opportunity. They shouldn't even have the opportunity to sim between playoff games. It's too much. You shouldn't have to do a background check on your draft picks to make sure your locker room stays at optimal engagement and enjoyment.

This is saying nothing of how little room there is for casual play in this league, or how people are using HAM as a lightning rod because they're one of a few professional teams in a league of amateurs. The league needs to take itself less seriously. Otherwise, there will only be room for one type of user, and it's the type that all of you seem to hate.

Shortening the season sounds like a horrendous idea. All your doing is inflating seasons and I would 100% enjoy the league less because of it. GMs already feel overwhelmed (at least some do), and forcing a shorter season isn't going to magically make the feel less overwhelmed.

I understand where you're coming from, but if I wanted a sim league where I barely had to do anything, I'd go join some other league that already does that.

PremierBromanov · 05-25-2022, 01:33 PM

05-20-2022, 12:06 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: were pretty surprised to basically get a hard "NO" back from them because basically no one in there trusted their colleagues at all to vote in an impartial and fair manner. There seemed to be no trust or even mutual respect among them at all.

this fit my experience. I didn't get a lot of hands on time with many GMs because we werent working trades, but the loudest, most active GMs in chat were some of the least respectful and kind. 60% of the time though, it's not about GMs being outright rude to one another, it was just not being part of some clique. It's easy for me to feel out of place because I'm weird, but man, i cant think of a time where I felt less welcome. If you took any user from any LR and plopped them into GM chat, it'd be like trying to sit down with the Mean Girls. "You can't sit with us!". Sorry if that's a misogynistic allegory, but I can't of a more passive aggressive movie trope.

All of that true, except for Wally. He was a true champ. He was only ever interested in doing right by his players and LR. He put together a great retirement home and had a lot of success (I have no idea how TOR is now, but i hope it is well)

worth noting, HO (especially zoltan, who is my lover) were especially gracious and welcoming, imo.

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