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NJBadApple · 06-21-2022, 08:26 PM

I have information that someone is already test simming, selling it for $500M SHL bucks

trella · 06-21-2022, 08:32 PM

Love the changes

Thanks to @karey and @JSS for the sigs!

Former USA Fed Head, Carolina Kraken Co-GM, Tampa Bay Barracuda GM

adamantium · 06-21-2022, 09:38 PM

06-21-2022, 05:58 PMRagnar Wrote: I'd rather that than what we've had, which was teams who are in the middle of the pack on the TPE list but extra, extra sweaty with the testing winning it every season and beating teams they had no business beating.

high tpe count != well-distributed tpe but otherwise i get your point

sigs by me bitch

***luke*** · 06-21-2022, 09:40 PM

06-21-2022, 08:26 PMNJBadApple Wrote: I have information that someone is already test simming, selling it for $500M SHL bucks

will 460 mil work?

NJBadApple · 06-21-2022, 09:43 PM

06-21-2022, 09:40 PMluke Wrote:
06-21-2022, 08:26 PMNJBadApple Wrote: I have information that someone is already test simming, selling it for $500M SHL bucks
will 460 mil work?

I have an expert in fake money, let me give him a call.

Accka · 06-21-2022, 10:38 PM

uoooohhhh I can't stop test simming aaaaa

/

Big thanks to Pythonic(first sig evah), Sloth(first LAP sig<3) and Ragnar for their sigs<3

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***notorioustig*** · 06-21-2022, 11:35 PM

06-21-2022, 05:13 PMdmuda11 Wrote:
06-21-2022, 05:11 PMnotorioustig Wrote: I'd like to report a suspicious question

Tig u should remember I'm gonna see u irl in a week

I'd like to report a thinly veiled threat

***aleks*** · 06-22-2022, 01:11 AM

06-21-2022, 11:35 PMnotorioustig Wrote:
06-21-2022, 05:13 PMdmuda11 Wrote: Tig u should remember I'm gonna see u irl in a week

I'd like to report a thinly veiled threat

its not a threat, its a promise

Shylo_Moxii · 06-22-2022, 01:40 AM

06-21-2022, 02:46 PMDuff101 Wrote:
06-21-2022, 02:33 PMPatty Wrote: Part of the reason I wouldn't want to provide a testing script to GMs is it would only further reinforce their influence on the teams success or failure. That pressure is why some GMs spend so much time testing. The league is supposed to be about the individual players and I'd like to get to a point where their builds, the decisions they make with their TPE have more of an effect on their results than which selection their GM makes from a drop down menu.

Ok then, let's just give the cup to the team with the highest average TPE. GMs SHOULD have influence over their team's success and failure because, yknow, they manage the team. If we wanna make it all about players then why not remove the ability to set lines entirely? Why not remove essentially all coaching decisions a GM could theoretically make? If you want to refocus the league on players this isn't really the way to do it.

Also I'm sure HO relying on teammates tattling on others for test simming will make the community much more united and friendly with each other! It's not like toxicity is also a problem that people pointed out in that massive GMing article!

As someone who has played FHM 8 for quite awhile now. It's more prevalent to pretty much disregard test simming and use your games you get in preseason to be more realistic and try it rather than knowing the results and giving yourself a competitive advantage based on you getting 40 hours to do this over someone who has life things and can't test sim and they fall behind because they can't test sim at all. Basically gives the feel of why bother being a GM if I'm going to lose because I can't invest as much time as others. GMing is more about building your team and atmosphere over any type of testing. League wants to be more individualistic. Sliders and drop down menus are much less a need anymore. To be quite honest this move probably encourages more GMs to apply, because GM applications have been far and few within because the thought is you need to test sim and put hours upon hours within the game to even be remotely successful and putting in a ton of time was both exhausting, and 2 not rewarding enough to take on the task.

Under the circumstances this was a very well liked universal decision that was popular overall. If you want parity the only way to truly do that is put people in the blind and let them basically find what works and what doesn't. I'd rather not have everyone know the exact results that's going to happen. Because that is basically like giving the cup to the highest average tpe team in itself. It's gotten redundant. Only reason lines would be set is basically because FHM has no actual IQ on how to formally set up lines. GMs can set up their lines in ways they want it might effect the game, but you are giving other teams more of a chance because some GMs don't have 45 hours to set aside and put into test simming just to get the result of winning every single year ever.

Memento Mori · 06-22-2022, 03:33 AM

06-21-2022, 05:58 PMRagnar Wrote: All I have read in this from people complaining is:

But without test sims, the team with the best players will win!

Yeah... that's like sort of the point.

GMing is drafting and contract work. Build a good team, get rewarded.

I'd rather that than what we've had, which was teams who are in the middle of the pack on the TPE list but extra, extra sweaty with the testing winning it every season and beating teams they had no business beating.

This isn’t what I’ve seen in other leagues. When teams use suboptimal strats, some are obviously more optimal than others.

E.g. in ISFL the first season after the sim switch, the teams 1st and 3rd in TPE missed the playoffs and a team bottom-3 in TPE had the best record in the league. There’s also plenty of examples of this in the early seasons of WSBL, such as a team that went on to make a finals appearance with the same roster missing the playoffs in S1 (IMO) because of bad player builds, that they later changed.

It’s not clear to me that this actually makes roster management more important, as a lack of understanding of the sim doesn’t strengthen the relationship between TPE and team performance. It replaces sim testing with educated guesswork at best. If we imagine team wins to be a function of lots of different variables, we got rid of a predictable one people didn’t like and replaced it with a giant ‘???’ that adds or subtracts wins.

And that’s assuming no one breaks the rules, when obviously a large portion of the league will.

***CampinKiller*** · 06-22-2022, 07:31 AM

06-22-2022, 03:33 AMMemento Mori Wrote:
06-21-2022, 05:58 PMRagnar Wrote: All I have read in this from people complaining is:

But without test sims, the team with the best players will win!

Yeah... that's like sort of the point.

GMing is drafting and contract work. Build a good team, get rewarded.

I'd rather that than what we've had, which was teams who are in the middle of the pack on the TPE list but extra, extra sweaty with the testing winning it every season and beating teams they had no business beating.
This isn’t what I’ve seen in other leagues. When teams use suboptimal strats, some are obviously more optimal than others.

E.g. in ISFL the first season after the sim switch, the teams 1st and 3rd in TPE missed the playoffs and a team bottom-3 in TPE had the best record in the league. There’s also plenty of examples of this in the early seasons of WSBL, such as a team that went on to make a finals appearance with the same roster missing the playoffs in S1 (IMO) because of bad player builds, that they later changed.

It’s not clear to me that this actually makes roster management more important, as a lack of understanding of the sim doesn’t strengthen the relationship between TPE and team performance. It replaces sim testing with educated guesswork at best. If we imagine team wins to be a function of lots of different variables, we got rid of a predictable one people didn’t like and replaced it with a giant ‘???’ that adds or subtracts wins.

And that’s assuming no one breaks the rules, when obviously a large portion of the league will.

I am sure someone will break the rules, but I don’t think you understand how difficult it is to test sim in FHM8. It would require someone to make an entire new file, recreating all 20 teams, the league settings, etc

***Acsolap*** · 06-22-2022, 09:07 AM

Pretty telling that theres a lot of SHL weekend warriors complaining and no SHL GMs complaining.

Credit to Ml002, King, Wasty, Carpy, Bruins10, Rum_Ham, Turd Ferguson, Ragnar and Enigmatic for the sigs.
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adamantium · 06-22-2022, 09:30 AM

06-22-2022, 09:07 AMAcsolap Wrote: Pretty telling that theres a lot of SHL weekend warriors complaining and no SHL GMs complaining.

i'll complain right now bro i swear to god work is so boring that i have nothing better to do on this fine wednesday

sigs by me bitch

***Chevy*** · 06-22-2022, 09:35 AM

PremierBromanov · 06-22-2022, 09:48 AM

06-22-2022, 03:33 AMMemento Mori Wrote:
06-21-2022, 05:58 PMRagnar Wrote: All I have read in this from people complaining is:

But without test sims, the team with the best players will win!

Yeah... that's like sort of the point.

GMing is drafting and contract work. Build a good team, get rewarded.

I'd rather that than what we've had, which was teams who are in the middle of the pack on the TPE list but extra, extra sweaty with the testing winning it every season and beating teams they had no business beating.
This isn’t what I’ve seen in other leagues. When teams use suboptimal strats, some are obviously more optimal than others.

E.g. in ISFL the first season after the sim switch, the teams 1st and 3rd in TPE missed the playoffs and a team bottom-3 in TPE had the best record in the league. There’s also plenty of examples of this in the early seasons of WSBL, such as a team that went on to make a finals appearance with the same roster missing the playoffs in S1 (IMO) because of bad player builds, that they later changed.

It’s not clear to me that this actually makes roster management more important, as a lack of understanding of the sim doesn’t strengthen the relationship between TPE and team performance. It replaces sim testing with educated guesswork at best. If we imagine team wins to be a function of lots of different variables, we got rid of a predictable one people didn’t like and replaced it with a giant ‘???’ that adds or subtracts wins.

And that’s assuming no one breaks the rules, when obviously a large portion of the league will.

educated guesswork is kind of how coaching works in real life, if it's any consolation. Every coach works off of experience in the game. What we're going into is a sim where almost no one has experience, and those that do arent translatable because of mental stats and the lack of 4th lines, and different league setup (ie, not the same game).

What this means is that experienced GMs and coaches are going to be valuable, but that knowledge isn't exclusive to any one person. It's more of a community pool of thoughts and opinions being put to the test daily. But, we have no way of knowing the best outcomes, because we havent run each season 100 times. Simming was always about discovering the optimal win percentage, and now we'll never know what that percentage is. Without knowing, i think the league is better. Guesswork is fun. Waiting to see the results of a game is what sports is all about. Have you ever tried watching a game after it was played, knowing what the score was? It's not as fun at all.

We'll get the necessary testing done over the next 5 seasons or so, but in the mean time no player will be told that their build is suboptimal and I think that's for the best.

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