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FuzzSHL · 01-27-2023, 01:19 PM

01-27-2023, 03:40 AMCarpy48 Wrote:
01-27-2023, 02:14 AMFuzzSHL Wrote: For goalies, sv% >>>> GAA. Almost always. Just because you have the lowest GAA doesn't mean you're the best goalie, it just means the team in front of you did really well to limit the chances against. Now, if you have the lowest GAA and one of the highest sv%, that's different. Context matters, but for most cases, sv% should be the deciding factor.

I'm probably missing something because...wait that isn't there case here? I thought it was absolutely clear that GAA (and technically also wins and maybe shutouts) is a team stat more than it is a individual goalie's stat. I should look for some old award nominee thread where I wrote about the same thing. When giving out McBride noms never only look for the most wins and the best GAA because that's definitely not up to the individual. Some goalie get hundreds of shots more (obviously same amount of games played) and if they have a better sv% than a goalie on another team who has seen fewer shots and obviously a smaller GAA then it's important. Definitely context matters.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned GAA and wins. My comment about sv% wasn’t directed the committee

Aleksi Kettu

FuzzSHL · 01-27-2023, 01:39 PM

01-27-2023, 04:11 AMShylo_Moxii Wrote:
01-27-2023, 02:14 AMFuzzSHL Wrote: I got tagged so I'm stopping by to sat this:

For goalies, sv% >>>> GAA. Almost always. Just because you have the lowest GAA doesn't mean you're the best goalie, it just means the team in front of you did really well to limit the chances against. Now, if you have the lowest GAA and one of the highest sv%, that's different. Context matters, but for most cases, sv% should be the deciding factor.

Rookies on high TPE teams will always have an easier time at producing than rookies on a low TPE team. We see it all the time even with high TPE players, the better linemates you have the more likely it is you will produce offensively.

If there are a lot of good rookies, the ability to narrow down a list to just 3, let alone 1, will be difficult. Not much can be done with a limited ballot pool.

Point-per-game players who improve their point total and end up on the Most Improved ballot should not be as common as they are. They are good players, that much is known.

A lot to improve upon, not much opportunity to actually improve upon it.
Ok so some context here. Not only are we looking at this broad rubric of Sv% GAA Wins I can also say we’ve looked at GSAA and SO and SHA. It’s not like this is being decided based solely on 1 category here. I can understand the basis for this text and while I agree we are a bit further in-depth at analyzing. Even the past couple seasons we’ve taken into consideration a player being on a good team v a bad team for goalies and other award nominations.

Rookies is a very interesting area to partake in I’ll defer this one to you, but I’ll also mention the discussions this led to said it was Olubori definitively and you could pretty much take your pick of Baltisberger, Faker, Biemanns, Iskandrov, Surkhi-Ze’ev, and Soderberg-Tremblay which all had nominations this year I will say.

as far as Aidan Richan is concerned, I myself am trying to figure out in a bit more detail a broader rubric to help fix this problem of points being the only thing we work on. I want to get into more advanced stats for players and try to be more inclusive with players because this has very much become a forward based award, much of the same with the MVP voting.

as always I thank you for the critique and opinions on how to fix the system. I am looking forward to setting up another suggestions tab with an actual form.

So, as I said to Carly just a moment ago, my comment about sv% and GAA was in regard to a comment I saw on the thread, not the actual nominees. If I misunderstood the comment that I saw, that’s on me, but the premise of my comment stands. I’m not saying sv% is the only category that matters here, was just commenting on the comparison of importance of sv% and GAA. Wasn’t taking a shot at you guys with that one.

Yeah, a lot of good rookies this season. When you have a lot of good rookies, the difference makers can become quite specific and arbitrary, so I’m not trying to make a fuss about this season’s nominees. Was just trying to touch on the rookie part because of a comment I noticed in the thread.

There are a lot of different parameters that you could argue on for Most Improved. If you want advanced stats to be part of the focus and be part of your reasoning for nominees, you can’t just leave out the advanced stats in the nomination post. Only listing G - A - P for the season-to-season comparison says nothing about any advanced improvement that would help their case. This award, much like the MVP award, needs to find a way to incorporate defensemen and goalies again. These awards can’t just be forward-only awards, especially when there are deserving players at the defense and goalie positions.

Aleksi Kettu

Grapehead · 01-27-2023, 02:36 PM

For the record, shouldn't this thread really be titled "Award Finalists"? We submitted a ballot of nominees, which were then compiled into a list of finalists that we voted on the winner. So in the case of many of the players being brought up in this thread, they were nominated by someone on the awards committee, but didn't end up as a finalist, so it looks like they weren't even considered when they were.

goilers · 01-27-2023, 02:49 PM

***DrunkenTeddy*** · 01-27-2023, 07:41 PM

Shouldn't this be in the SHL History/Awards section like all the other ones?

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***luke*** · 01-27-2023, 07:45 PM

01-27-2023, 07:41 PMDrunkenTeddy Wrote: Shouldn't this be in the SHL History/Awards section like all the other ones?

iirc it gets moved after

***sve7en*** · 01-27-2023, 08:32 PM

01-27-2023, 12:30 PMCementHands Wrote: Lol Imagine shattering all time defensive points records and not even getting an mvp nod.
I guess no defense should ever expect an opportunity at that award.

Imagine awards actually being looked at with any depth.

***notorioustig*** · 01-27-2023, 08:51 PM

@jay2233 it's ok buddy, next time just set the assists record as well as the goal and points records and you might have a shot at MVP

By-Tor · 01-27-2023, 08:54 PM

Maybe we should have a 2x media window where people make cases for awards for players before the committee votes.

Credit to enigmatic, Merica, tweedledunn, and jaypc8237 for sigs

***luke*** · 01-27-2023, 08:56 PM

01-27-2023, 08:51 PMnotorioustig Wrote: @jay2233 it's ok buddy, next time just set the assists record as well as the goal and points records and you might have a shot at MVP

PP merchant Gnome Dab

***sve7en*** · 01-27-2023, 09:21 PM

01-27-2023, 08:54 PMBy-Tor Wrote: Maybe we should have a 2x media window where people make cases for awards for players before the committee votes.

Yeah because that would surely get considered.

***notorioustig*** · 01-27-2023, 09:28 PM

01-27-2023, 08:56 PMluke Wrote:
01-27-2023, 08:51 PMnotorioustig Wrote: @jay2233 it's ok buddy, next time just set the assists record as well as the goal and points records and you might have a shot at MVP

PP merchant

Ah well that settles it then

Rangerjase · 01-27-2023, 09:36 PM

01-27-2023, 09:21 PMsve7en Wrote:
01-27-2023, 08:54 PMBy-Tor Wrote: Maybe we should have a 2x media window where people make cases for awards for players before the committee votes.

Yeah because that would surely get considered.

its actually a great suggestion

By-Tor · 01-27-2023, 09:43 PM

01-27-2023, 09:21 PMsve7en Wrote:
01-27-2023, 08:54 PMBy-Tor Wrote: Maybe we should have a 2x media window where people make cases for awards for players before the committee votes.

Yeah because that would surely get considered.

Some people are more persuasive than others

Credit to enigmatic, Merica, tweedledunn, and jaypc8237 for sigs

***sve7en*** · 01-27-2023, 09:43 PM

01-27-2023, 09:36 PMRangerjase Wrote:
01-27-2023, 09:21 PMsve7en Wrote: Yeah because that would surely get considered.

its actually a great suggestion

Oh the idea is great, it came from someone that actively dismissed the media put out this season that did that.

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