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Grapehead · 10-23-2019, 11:41 AM

10-23-2019, 10:14 AMWannabeFinn Wrote: Player archetypes need a major overhaul.

Yes, this.

***luke*** · 10-23-2019, 11:42 AM

10-23-2019, 11:26 AMWannabeFinn Wrote:
10-23-2019, 11:24 AMluketd Wrote: Only make PS, fighting, strength, and durability as the strengths people can choose
Hell yeah Luke let’s meme in suggestion threads

Hell yeah, it’s like this has been an issue Before I joined and this one specific thread will change everything

***DrunkenTeddy*** · 10-23-2019, 11:43 AM

We all know exactly how a conversation about a major overhaul will go and how long it will take to get basically nothing done. Can we focus on this one small change first to improve the experience for new members?

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***golden_apricot*** · 10-23-2019, 12:00 PM

I mean a new player will have it as a weakness and then use their free change to fix that mistake within a week after falling in the draft and being told why, so might as well get rid of that and at least give a new user a chance at staying in the league

Mook · 10-23-2019, 12:12 PM

10-23-2019, 10:45 AMztevans Wrote:
10-23-2019, 10:15 AMMook Wrote: This would restrict the creativity of builds. Yes, rookies are advised that they shouldn't have defense as a weakness but that doesn't mean we should remove the possibility of having it as a weakness ever

It really wouldn't restrict much of anything from a creativity standpoint. You can count on one hand the number of defense-weakness builds in the SHL, and all of them are inactive fillers averaging less than a minute per game (assuming they play at all). Any player who stays active and starts with defense weakness eventually sees how damning it is and burns their free strength/weakness change on it. I'm all for build variety and typically push against suggestions like "Kill the enforcer build!" but removing defense as a weakness would have zero impact on variety and would only make for better start-of-life experience for end users.

10-23-2019, 11:09 AMWannabeFinn Wrote:
10-23-2019, 10:15 AMMook Wrote: This would restrict the creativity of builds. Yes, rookies are advised that they shouldn't have defense as a weakness but that doesn't mean we should remove the possibility of having it as a weakness ever
Having low defense doesn’t make your build creative, it just makes it bad. It isn’t like Checking, Fighting, Faceoffs, Scoring/Passing/Skating balance. Attributes that actually make your build creative and distinct.

There comes a point where no builds are creative when you have enough TPE, sure, creativity is dead at 2000 TPE. A lot of players now are recreates, so they go the route of having defense as either a strength or a regular stat because that's what performs. People want to make it into the top 10 for scoring, they want to put up big numbers because that is the only thing that reflects the work they put in. This doesn't mean that we have to eliminate an entire possibility of someone with a goal of making a 800-1300 TPE players that allows for some build creativity. You can still get 85 defense with it as your weakness, it doesn't make you a useless player.

Why not add in another choice for weaknesses that have defense as an option such as Offensive forwards being able to choose between "Checking/Defense/Strength" or Playmaker "Checking/Defense/Scoring" Since scoring can't be a strength on a playmaker forward, same with a sniper and Passing.

I don't think the vision should be on restricting builds, but allowing more freedom

Mook · 10-23-2019, 12:17 PM

To add to this, if we are removing defense as a weakness, why don't we make the only weakness a goaltender can have be skating

Grapehead · 10-23-2019, 12:20 PM

I mean... what is the free strength/weakness change for but to correct mistakes like this, no?

***WannabeFinn*** · 10-23-2019, 12:23 PM

10-23-2019, 12:20 PMGrapehead Wrote: I mean... what is the free strength/weakness change for but to correct mistakes like this, no?

People with defense as a weakness likely also have other weird choices as strengths that they would want to adjust. It’s best for us to let them know early on about the attributes so that they can save that free strength change for if they want to switch from being a scorer to a passer, or to switch from being a checker to a non-checker.

ztevans · 10-23-2019, 12:24 PM

10-23-2019, 12:20 PMGrapehead Wrote: I mean... what is the free strength/weakness change for but to correct mistakes like this, no?

I'd like to think it's better for a change of heart than something we're clearly establishing is a mistake. "Oh, maybe I'd rather have defense as a strength instead of skating" is a decision you may or may not reach, entirely of your own choosing, after messing around in the sim a bit and speaking with your GMs and such as a new user. "Well, shit, defense weakness makes me completely useless" is a mistake, and a very avoidable one.

At this point, if mentors are advising against it and GMs have already shown even at the SMJHL level they won't draft "bad builds," it's the most logical next step to prevent someone's SHL career dying before it ever starts. I know, I know, but mah build diversity. I hear y'all. But it's literally a build decision no one uses and maintains. We are not *losing* anything if we abolish "defense weakness." Don't make this more complicated than it has to be.

Grapehead · 10-23-2019, 12:28 PM

I'm certainly not arguing to keep defense as a weakness option

**.bojo** · 10-23-2019, 12:30 PM

Remove defense and checking as weakness options. Imo only weaknesses should be skating passing or shooting

Mook · 10-23-2019, 12:31 PM

10-23-2019, 12:30 PM.bojo Wrote: Remove defense and checking as weakness options. Imo only weaknesses should be skating passing or shooting

You are a weakness

**.bojo** · 10-23-2019, 12:35 PM

10-23-2019, 12:31 PMMook Wrote:
10-23-2019, 12:30 PM.bojo Wrote: Remove defense and checking as weakness options. Imo only weaknesses should be skating passing or shooting

You are a weakness

you're my mookie pookie cookie

ztevans · 10-23-2019, 12:39 PM

10-23-2019, 12:31 PMMook Wrote:
10-23-2019, 12:30 PM.bojo Wrote: Remove defense and checking as weakness options. Imo only weaknesses should be skating passing or shooting

You are a weakness

We can all agree on this.

Mook · 10-23-2019, 12:40 PM

10-23-2019, 12:35 PM.bojo Wrote:
10-23-2019, 12:31 PMMook Wrote: You are a weakness

you're my mookie pookie cookie

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