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caltroit_red_flames · 11-26-2019, 05:08 PM

I've heard few people giving actual concerns about why they're apprehensive to switch to FHM.

Generally people seem very excited, of the people that are apprehensive I've heard two of them offer real concerns. Both have said they're going to give FHM a shot.

So what are you worried about? Let myself and the transition team know and we can talk about how to make sure it's not a problem or how to fix it.

*thiefofcheese* · 11-26-2019, 05:33 PM

I wrote 2 big paragraphs to respond to this but after re-reading I decided to shorten it a lot. Please just communicate as things progress and I'm sure we'll all be fine with it. Don't think anyone is arguing for STHS and FHM looks like the most promising replacement, but just let us know as you find edge cases and work your way around those issues.

Not saying that you have to make all decisions through a massive committee, as that would surely take too long and rarely hit a consensus, but if there is a situation when you just gotta make a call then just make the call and tell us it happened. "We could do A or B and we chose A b/c of XXX". We are all adults here (well mostly. Or some?) so treat us as such and we'll be fine.

The thing that drew me in and kept me on SHL was not the sim engine - it's the people. Keep that and you'll keep us around.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good here

caltroit_red_flames · 11-26-2019, 05:35 PM

11-26-2019, 05:33 PMthiefofcheese Wrote: I wrote 2 big paragraphs to respond to this but after re-reading I decided to shorten it a lot. Please just communicate as things progress and I'm sure we'll all be fine with it. Don't think anyone is arguing for STHS and FHM looks like the most promising replacement, but just let us know as you find edge cases and work your way around those issues.

Not saying that you have to make all decisions through a massive committee, as that would surely take too long and rarely hit a consensus, but if there is a situation when you just gotta make a call then just make the call and tell us it happened. "We could do A or B and we chose A b/c of XXX". We are all adults here (well mostly. Or some?) so treat us as such and we'll be fine.

The thing that drew me in and kept me on SHL was not the sim engine - it's the people. Keep that and you'll keep us around.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good here

I'm happy to do that. I'll document the stuff we've been working on and lay the decisions we made based on different issues when I get a chance. Probably not today though.

***golden_apricot*** · 11-26-2019, 05:35 PM

So I am all for the move, that being said I think some might start to see FHM as an entry barrier, which it would not be but to a new gen player it might feel that way. In addition it also makes getting new GMs into positions a bit more difficult as again there is a barrier of learning a more complex system before they can really start to manage the personnel side, this being if they do not have a coach. WJC might also have managment issues where the smaller nations are less likely to have people with the game and thus fewer people willing to actually apply for a GM slot. These are issues that will be there when there exists a $40 (USD) barrier to the game. If this goes down then it becomes less of an issue but for now this could be a problem for newer players.

*thiefofcheese* · 11-26-2019, 05:48 PM

11-26-2019, 05:35 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
11-26-2019, 05:33 PMthiefofcheese Wrote: I wrote 2 big paragraphs to respond to this but after re-reading I decided to shorten it a lot. Please just communicate as things progress and I'm sure we'll all be fine with it. Don't think anyone is arguing for STHS and FHM looks like the most promising replacement, but just let us know as you find edge cases and work your way around those issues.

Not saying that you have to make all decisions through a massive committee, as that would surely take too long and rarely hit a consensus, but if there is a situation when you just gotta make a call then just make the call and tell us it happened. "We could do A or B and we chose A b/c of XXX". We are all adults here (well mostly. Or some?) so treat us as such and we'll be fine.

The thing that drew me in and kept me on SHL was not the sim engine - it's the people. Keep that and you'll keep us around.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good here

I'm happy to do that. I'll document the stuff we've been working on and lay the decisions we made based on different issues when I get a chance. Probably not today though.

Thanks Cal! Clearly didn't expect it immediately - just glad to have you guys on the case!

***bluesfan55*** · 11-26-2019, 06:23 PM

I think I mentioned this before but just refine the update scale a bit. It's hard to understand a bit.

ty to @High Stick King @EvilAllBran and @Ragnar for the sigs

caltroit_red_flames · 11-26-2019, 06:32 PM

11-26-2019, 06:23 PMbluesfan55 Wrote: I think I mentioned this before but just refine the update scale a bit. It's hard to understand a bit.

We're finalizing the different attributes we're going to allow users to improve. Once that's done we should have a TPE scale fairly quickly

Baelor Swift · 11-26-2019, 06:35 PM

nothing literally any negatives are outweighed by the 5989084308249084932 times more negatives of STHS

Baelor Swift · 11-26-2019, 06:37 PM

oh yeah anyone against the switch is a big ol boomer

but the switch needs to be done well. Give it two or three more seasons of STHS if that means we have a fully functional index, a well-tested update scale, a great plan of how to avoid exploits and overpowered tactics, an evaluation of issues that may occur down the line with the sim.

caltroit_red_flames · 11-26-2019, 06:38 PM

11-26-2019, 06:35 PMBaelor Swift Wrote: nothing literally any negatives are outweighed by the 5989084308249084932 times more negatives of STHS

Totally agree, we just want to know what the other people who don't agree think.

caltroit_red_flames · 11-26-2019, 06:46 PM

11-26-2019, 05:35 PMgolden_apricot Wrote: So I am all for the move, that being said I think some might start to see FHM as an entry barrier, which it would not be but to a new gen player it might feel that way. In addition it also makes getting new GMs into positions a bit more difficult as again there is a barrier of learning a more complex system before they can really start to manage the personnel side, this being if they do not have a coach. WJC might also have managment issues where the smaller nations are less likely to have people with the game and thus fewer people willing to actually apply for a GM slot. These are issues that will be there when there exists a $40 (USD) barrier to the game. If this goes down then it becomes less of an issue but for now this could be a problem for newer players.

Now this is a legitimate problem.

STHS currently requires a subscription so there is a fee involved in getting started regardless. WJC is supposed to be for exposing people to management positions in general and to the IIHF. FHM 6 goes on sale on Friday so if you're planning on managing it'd be a good time to buy it then. The nice thing is that if you look at old versions of FHM the price is cheaper. FHM 3/4/5 are all 20 dollars each so we can expect FHM 6 to move to 20 dollars after FHM 7 comes out. Considering it's a yearly release we can expect this to happen with FHM 6 in less than a year. Since STHS is 17 dollars Canadian I think the improvement after the price drop will be worth the increased cost's tradeoff.

When it comes to complexity, it's going to be up to us to make good tutorials and put information on the site to help each other and rookies get started.

***DrunkenTeddy*** · 11-26-2019, 06:52 PM

11-26-2019, 06:46 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
11-26-2019, 05:35 PMgolden_apricot Wrote: So I am all for the move, that being said I think some might start to see FHM as an entry barrier, which it would not be but to a new gen player it might feel that way. In addition it also makes getting new GMs into positions a bit more difficult as again there is a barrier of learning a more complex system before they can really start to manage the personnel side, this being if they do not have a coach. WJC might also have managment issues where the smaller nations are less likely to have people with the game and thus fewer people willing to actually apply for a GM slot. These are issues that will be there when there exists a $40 (USD) barrier to the game. If this goes down then it becomes less of an issue but for now this could be a problem for newer players.

Now this is a legitimate problem.

STHS currently requires a subscription so there is a fee involved in getting started regardless. WJC is supposed to be for exposing people to management positions in general and to the IIHF. FHM 6 goes on sale on Friday so if you're planning on managing it'd be a good time to buy it then. The nice thing is that if you look at old versions of FHM the price is cheaper. FHM 3/4/5 are all 20 dollars each so we can expect FHM 6 to move to 20 dollars after FHM 7 comes out. Considering it's a yearly release we can expect this to happen with FHM 6 in less than a year. Since STHS is 17 dollars Canadian I think the improvement after the price drop will be worth the increased cost's tradeoff.

When it comes to complexity, it's going to be up to us to make good tutorials and put information on the site to help each other and rookies get started.

STHS does not require a subscription to submit lines, FHM does if you're using the application for that.

There is however a lines and tactics template supplied by OOTP that we can use for GMs not wishing to buy the game:
It's about the 5th or 6th tab in this doc https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...=355821563

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caltroit_red_flames · 11-26-2019, 07:03 PM

11-26-2019, 06:52 PMDrunkenTeddy Wrote:
11-26-2019, 06:46 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: Now this is a legitimate problem.

STHS currently requires a subscription so there is a fee involved in getting started regardless. WJC is supposed to be for exposing people to management positions in general and to the IIHF. FHM 6 goes on sale on Friday so if you're planning on managing it'd be a good time to buy it then. The nice thing is that if you look at old versions of FHM the price is cheaper. FHM 3/4/5 are all 20 dollars each so we can expect FHM 6 to move to 20 dollars after FHM 7 comes out. Considering it's a yearly release we can expect this to happen with FHM 6 in less than a year. Since STHS is 17 dollars Canadian I think the improvement after the price drop will be worth the increased cost's tradeoff.

When it comes to complexity, it's going to be up to us to make good tutorials and put information on the site to help each other and rookies get started.

STHS does not require a subscription to submit lines, FHM does if you're using the application for that.

There is however a lines and tactics template supplied by OOTP that we can use for GMs not wishing to buy the game:
It's about the 5th or 6th tab in this doc https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...=355821563

@golden_apricot

TnlAstatine · 11-26-2019, 07:26 PM

11-26-2019, 06:46 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
11-26-2019, 05:35 PMgolden_apricot Wrote: So I am all for the move, that being said I think some might start to see FHM as an entry barrier, which it would not be but to a new gen player it might feel that way. In addition it also makes getting new GMs into positions a bit more difficult as again there is a barrier of learning a more complex system before they can really start to manage the personnel side, this being if they do not have a coach. WJC might also have managment issues where the smaller nations are less likely to have people with the game and thus fewer people willing to actually apply for a GM slot. These are issues that will be there when there exists a $40 (USD) barrier to the game. If this goes down then it becomes less of an issue but for now this could be a problem for newer players.

Now this is a legitimate problem.

STHS currently requires a subscription so there is a fee involved in getting started regardless. WJC is supposed to be for exposing people to management positions in general and to the IIHF. FHM 6 goes on sale on Friday so if you're planning on managing it'd be a good time to buy it then. The nice thing is that if you look at old versions of FHM the price is cheaper. FHM 3/4/5 are all 20 dollars each so we can expect FHM 6 to move to 20 dollars after FHM 7 comes out. Considering it's a yearly release we can expect this to happen with FHM 6 in less than a year. Since STHS is 17 dollars Canadian I think the improvement after the price drop will be worth the increased cost's tradeoff.

When it comes to complexity, it's going to be up to us to make good tutorials and put information on the site to help each other and rookies get started.

so regarding this, do we stick to fhm 7 or go with each new version?

caltroit_red_flames · 11-26-2019, 08:04 PM

11-26-2019, 07:26 PMTnlAstatine Wrote:
11-26-2019, 06:46 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: Now this is a legitimate problem.

STHS currently requires a subscription so there is a fee involved in getting started regardless. WJC is supposed to be for exposing people to management positions in general and to the IIHF. FHM 6 goes on sale on Friday so if you're planning on managing it'd be a good time to buy it then. The nice thing is that if you look at old versions of FHM the price is cheaper. FHM 3/4/5 are all 20 dollars each so we can expect FHM 6 to move to 20 dollars after FHM 7 comes out. Considering it's a yearly release we can expect this to happen with FHM 6 in less than a year. Since STHS is 17 dollars Canadian I think the improvement after the price drop will be worth the increased cost's tradeoff.

When it comes to complexity, it's going to be up to us to make good tutorials and put information on the site to help each other and rookies get started.

so regarding this, do we stick to fhm 7 or go with each new version?

I imagine we'll do what PBE does, examine the difference in each version and wait until it makes sense to move to the next one. Generally the differences are negligible and the answer is no.

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