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Stop the Bias Against non-Photoshop Users
#1

Let’s be honest, the graphics grading system is unfair, and is a far cry from what it was during my first tour of the SHL. I had just downloaded GIMP at the time and was frankly, pretty bad at graphics. Yet I was making more money per sig than I am now.

Why should I put effort in to sigs anymore if it will just be a 1/5? For what it’s worth, I’ve had nothing but positive feedback from those who asked for the sigs and others who have seen them.

In what world is THIS a 1/5?

[Image: zPd1bmv.png]

The jersey swap is clean, the text pops and the background generally blends well.

And this...

[Image: fuH7MaP.png]

This jersey swap is clean as all hell, sure the text might not be great, but the render alone should warrant at least a 2, with the rest making it a 3.

No, I’m not asking for a 5/5, I know it’s not of that advanced PhotoShop level. But I’d like a more fair grading system for those who have programs such as GIMP, put effort and take pride in their work and produce graphics that many find aesthetically pleasing. I have lost all interest in making graphics for this elitist league if this system is not reworked. It’s a shame too, because I had a whole draft sig package planned.

Riddle me this, SHL...
why should I devote time and effort into making signatures (which is something I enjoy doing), and that, quite frankly, look GOOD, to receive a paltry 400K per sig?

Fuck that.

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#2

01-01-2020, 06:40 PMRainDelay Wrote: Let’s be honest, the graphics grading system is unfair, and is a far cry from what it was during my first tour of the SHL. I had just downloaded GIMP at the time and was frankly, pretty bad at graphics. Yet I was making more money per sig than I am now.

Why should I put effort in to sigs anymore if it will just be a 1/5? For what it’s worth, I’ve had nothing but positive feedback from those who asked for the sigs and others who have seen them.

In what world is THIS a 1/5?

[Image: zPd1bmv.png]

The jersey swap is clean, the text pops and the background generally blends well.

And this...

[Image: fuH7MaP.png]

This jersey swap is clean as all hell, sure the text might not be great, but the render alone should warrant at least a 2, with the rest making it a 3.

No, I’m not asking for a 5/5, I know it’s not of that advanced PhotoShop level. But I’d like a more fair grading system for those who have programs such as GIMP, put effort and take pride in their work and produce graphics that many find aesthetically pleasing. I have lost all interest in making graphics for this elitist league if this system is not reworked. It’s a shame too, because I had a whole draft sig package planned.

Riddle me this, SHL...
why should I devote time and effort into making signatures (which is something I enjoy doing), and that, quite frankly, look GOOD, to receive a paltry 400K per sig?

Fuck that.


If you got 1 of 5 for those, then you should bring them right to arbitration. I agree 1 of 5 is kind of kick in the nuts grade for those.

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#3

I got 1/5 for all four. The other two, I sooorta understand, because of the elementary text, but not these, no way.

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#4

This is my next submission, I shudder at the idea of receiving a 1/5 for these, which is what I’ll probably get with this fucked up system.

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#5

@Carpy48 thoughts?

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#6

I’ve given up on submitting graphics here for grading tbh. I know I’m not as good as most people here but with the time I put into each one the money ain’t worth it.

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#7

I want to add that Seger's render always have jerseys covered in ads. I imagine removing those adds a whole other aspect to the jersey swaps. Why are sigs just graded on the look of the end product and not also the effort that went into it?

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#8

01-01-2020, 08:04 PMSegi Wrote: I want to add that Seger's render always have jerseys covered in ads. I imagine removing those adds a whole other aspect to the jersey swaps. Why are sigs just graded on the look of the end product and not also the effort that went into it?

Thank you!

For what it’s worth, this is the image I used. [Image: ki3b4632.jpg]

Covered in ads indeed.

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#9
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2020, 08:19 PM by dankoa.)

as someone who used to sink hours over the years into making sigs, the current grading system is almost laughable. it’s not even a photoshop vs non photoshop thing, as someone who’s been making sigs for over 4 years II spent at least an hour on this using photoshop and got a fucking 2/5. Not bothered to put a submission in since and won’t until either the current gfx head changes

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#10

01-01-2020, 08:19 PMdankoa Wrote: as someone who used to sink hours over the years into making sigs, the current grading system is almost laughable. it’s not even a photoshop vs non photoshop thing, as someone who’s been making sigs for over 4 years II spent at least an hour on this using photoshop and got a fucking 2/5. Not bothered to put a submission in since and won’t until either the current gfx head changes

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Yeah, agreed. The current system doesn’t reward time and effort in the slightest and is pretty much a joke. I want the 2016-17 system back.

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#11

I picked up 2 simmer jobs because I couldn't be bothered to do so much graphics and get shit pay

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#12

01-01-2020, 08:40 PMRainDelay Wrote:
01-01-2020, 08:19 PMdankoa Wrote: as someone who used to sink hours over the years into making sigs, the current grading system is almost laughable. it’s not even a photoshop vs non photoshop thing, as someone who’s been making sigs for over 4 years II spent at least an hour on this using photoshop and got a fucking 2/5. Not bothered to put a submission in since and won’t until either the current gfx head changes

[Image: wachter.png]

Yeah, agreed. The current system doesn’t reward time and effort in the slightest and is pretty much a joke. I want the 2016-17 system back.
To be fair people complained because truly “effort and time” are impossible to grade. Graders have no idea how much time or effort you put into a sig, asking for people to just assume is off base. While I agree your work isn’t 1/5 it’s impossible to ask a grader to know what exactly you do in the sig. Like take the Seger render, I didn’t even know the dude was a real player and so the ads on a Jersey is asking a grader to go search for the render used to see that the artist erased all the ads, how is a grader supposed to assume that.

What if some truly shitty sig took 3 hours and the artist put effort but it just looks awful, it doesn’t mean it deserves 3/5 or 4/5 when there’s also amazing sigs that maybe took 30-45 mins and should get 4/5. They're not equatable. What needs to be graded is the finished/final piece in its entirety.

Like I said your sigs above aren't 1/5 and I agree with you but asking to also have effort and time added into grading is off base.

If you have two sandwiches and one is amazing and took the chef 30 mins to make as opposed to another one that’s not as good but took 2 hours to make doesn’t mean they’re both amazing sandwiches because the second one put in more work.

Now I understand I’m sitting here and I rarely get 3/5s ever so I shouldn’t talk, but I also usually put an hour and half doing just the render and then about another hour and half to do the sig, but what gets graded is JUST the sig posted, not the psd so graders can see what I did and time stamps.

Graphic grading is very objective and that’s why the arbitration thread is there if you feel the need to contend a grading.

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#13

Maybe I'm wrong on this and I'll freely admit I suck at graphics but I feel like 90% of graphic content created for this site is made to be consumed while quickly scrolling through threads (Sigs/Custom Profile pics).

As a consumer of the graphics on this site, it doesn't add to my enjoyment whether or not a signature is technically proficient. All that matters to me is if I see cool looking graphics that make the site more interesting.

I'll also say as someone who has zero experience in editing that being graded on my proficiency is extremely discouraging because I will never be able to reach the level that a lot of users who have professional skills in editing have.

I'd honestly love a system where multiple graders give a score from 1-10 based on initial impression and we award the average with any outliers removed. Even better if the graphics are sent to the graders anonymously.

It honestly feels like currently we're taking the stance of everyone works hard so no one should get money.

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#14

01-01-2020, 11:17 PMTommySalami Wrote: Maybe I'm wrong on this and I'll freely admit I suck at graphics but I feel like 90% of graphic content created for this site is made to be consumed while quickly scrolling through threads (Sigs/Custom Profile pics).

As a consumer of the graphics on this site, it doesn't add to my enjoyment whether or not a signature is technically proficient. All that matters to me is if I see cool looking graphics that make the site more interesting.

I'll also say as someone who has zero experience in editing that being graded on my proficiency is extremely discouraging because I will never be able to reach the level that a lot of users who have professional skills in editing have.

I'd honestly love a system where multiple graders give a score from 1-10 based on initial impression and we award the average with any outliers removed. Even better if the graphics are sent to the graders anonymously.

It honestly feels like currently we're taking the stance of everyone works hard so no one should get money.
Asking for multiple graders is a lot to ask. Sometimes grades don’t happen within weeks for one grader, asking for multiple graders will backlog and eventually slow down grading more than it usually is.

Sending anonymously doesn’t really do much imo either, any grader grading based on who made it shouldn’t be grading. Plus I don’t post my sigs in multiple threads, it’s redundant so posting my sigs for grading publicly is where they get seen, hiding artwork for anonymous grading doesn’t make sense when like you said Sigs are quick scrolling fodder to catch the eye, now that’s just reducing the visibility which hurts why people make sigs. People making sigs just to make money will always produce imo mediocre work because there’s no heart in it, it’s just for money.

And just my opinion saying it doesn’t matter whether or not a sig is good or not tells the people that do make better artwork, that to you it looks just the same as a shittier sig. what’s the point of doing better work if you can make a shitty sig and you still get paid the same as a good one.

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#40 Niclas Wastlund - W - VANCOUVER WHALERS Whalers / MINNESOTA MONARCHS Monarchs
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#15
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2020, 12:01 AM by Nokazoa.)

Hi, I am here. Yeah, I get the reaction on this. The graders are fairly "tough" compared to other sim leagues. I know because I'm the NSFL graphics grading head and boy did they think I was too hard at first. I don't think it's a PS vs non-PS thing, because they don't ask what program you use. It is just their standards are high and the payouts don't reflect it when you can just make an hourlong podcast for 3 million. Wasty saying he takes 3 hours to do a sig, and he will net a 1 to 1.25mil payout on said sig, shows an issue to me. I think payouts need to be raised. As far as your grade, I think we all agree it's over a 1/5, but at least the critique is good and helpful IMO. Luckily we have an arbitration thread.


I do like seeing nongraphics people chime in. Particular what Tony Pepperoni has said
Quote:I'll also say as someone who has zero experience in editing that being graded on my proficiency is extremely discouraging because I will never be able to reach the level that a lot of users who have professional skills in editing have.

I'd honestly love a system where multiple graders give a score from 1-10 based on initial impression and we award the average with any outliers removed. Even better if the graphics are sent to the graders anonymously.
I like that grading idea, but it could be a pain. I am not sure how many graders they have, and I think, regarding the first bit if the critiques are helpful then it shouldn't be a problem. If they teach you and are presented in a non-dismissive way that is.


EDIT: ALSO JULIOS FIRST CALGARY BANNER WAS AMAZING AND YALL HATE TRUE ART


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