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Make a maximum gap between passing and scoring
#61

01-03-2020, 08:19 PMnour Wrote: ww3 is on our doorstep and we’re using an outdated forum style website to argue about the morality of player builds on a fake hockey league the real question is who gets the aux when we drivin the tank

i cant drive does that mean i get the big pew pew

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#62

01-03-2020, 08:28 PMInf1d3l Wrote: It's more surprising to me the "we did nothing at all why is everyone mad at us" attitude than the results. The only people i see with more attitude like that is Patriot fans...

Yeahthat

Also this would probably be more believable if you settled on a coherent argument for your defense, not switch around between "Why does no one like us, we did nothing wrong and don't mean any harm!" and "lol u mad, get over it!"
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#63

I have to say, it's disappointing to see the attitude HAM is taking towards this. After what happened in the offseason, i thought that we had collectively agreed that these PA-SC-shenanigans are something that can severely hurt the league as a whole and that a) we need to look for substantial technical/engine solutions to this problem and b) that GMs would enter into sort of a gentlemans agreement to not take advantage of these loopholes while the league is still working on the fixes. I even thought that something like what was suggested in the OP had already been established to a certain extent as a stopgap, but I guess I misremembered.

But apparently HAM decided to say screw that, ignore the whole "overall well-being of the league" thing and instead decided to focus on maximizing their own advantage they could get out of this situation. Which, by all means, is not against the rules or anything, but don't be so sanctimonious and expect people to be happy about it and like you for it. You were presented with a choice "Do we do what is good for the league, or do we do go what is good for us?", and you chose the latter, it's as simple as that. For the second time, by the way.

When you originally discovered the exploit I could have given you the benefit of the doubt, because looking for an advantage over other teams is part of a GMs job and we can't blame you for coming up with a creative and perfectly legal way to accomplish that. But since then it has become very clear how this exploit negatively affects the overall health of the league in numerous ways, but even though we have this knowledge now, you are still sticking to the plan to a certain extent. Of course we can't expect you to put points into attributes that you know will likely make your player worse, but you are still using the current system to rush your players to the SC max, leave PA untouched or even use regression to drop players PA ratings, making the most of our current broken system. Again, perfectly legal but certainly not helpful considering the overall situation of the league, and therefore not popular.

I give you that this series against Buffalo doesn't really count as proof for the argument against you though because you are right, flukes happen in STHS and in the playoffs no matter what and shit can be quite random with such a small sample size. We have no way of knowing how much the build changes influenced the results or goalie performances, the Conference Winner sweeping the Wildcard team certainly isn't something super crazy.  Don't let NOLA hear that though.
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#64

just to show how broken the PA-SC gap is i went from a 10 point gap to a 12 point gap and went from 23 to 40 points
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#65

01-04-2020, 01:37 PMefiug Wrote: just to show how broken the PA-SC gap is i went from a 10 point gap to a 12 point gap and went from 23 to 40 points

ive been avoiding the flame wars that this topic brings but i will say, does this not scream small sample size? i have the biggest scoring-passing gap on Hamilton right now and I had a 23 point season and 0 playoff points currently, and plenty of high scoring players have had middling seasons in the SHL too.

Obviously the proven results say scoring > passing, but this comment feels a lot more like its garnered at generating reactions by pulling the results of 1 player, comparing only 2 seasons and saying “look how broken this is, this is the baseline we should be looking at as the premier example as to why this is a broken strategy!”

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#66

01-04-2020, 01:45 PMnour Wrote:
01-04-2020, 01:37 PMefiug Wrote: just to show how broken the PA-SC gap is i went from a 10 point gap to a 12 point gap and went from 23 to 40 points

ive been avoiding the flame wars that this topic brings but i will say, does this not scream small sample size? i have the biggest scoring-passing gap on Hamilton right now and I had a 23 point season and 0 playoff points currently, and plenty of high scoring players have had middling seasons in the SHL too.

Obviously the proven results say scoring > passing, but this comment feels a lot more like its garnered at generating reactions by pulling the results of 1 player, comparing only 2 seasons and saying “look how broken this is, this is the baseline we should be looking at as the premier example as to why this is a broken strategy!”

it's just efiug ignore him

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#67

01-04-2020, 01:47 PMaaronwilson Wrote:
01-04-2020, 01:45 PMnour Wrote: ive been avoiding the flame wars that this topic brings but i will say, does this not scream small sample size? i have the biggest scoring-passing gap on Hamilton right now and I had a 23 point season and 0 playoff points currently, and plenty of high scoring players have had middling seasons in the SHL too.

Obviously the proven results say scoring > passing, but this comment feels a lot more like its garnered at generating reactions by pulling the results of 1 player, comparing only 2 seasons and saying “look how broken this is, this is the baseline we should be looking at as the premier example as to why this is a broken strategy!”

it's just efiug ignore him
but he is my friend

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#68

But I increased my scoring from 57 to 63 and my goals scored during regular increased by 200% despite me moving from SMJHL to SHL, clearly broken

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#69

bruh just yall wait til my gap is 15 or somethin bruh, mexico's for days
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#70

01-04-2020, 12:26 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: I have to say, it's disappointing to see the attitude HAM is taking towards this. After what happened in the offseason, i thought that we had collectively agreed that these PA-SC-shenanigans are something that can severely hurt the league as a whole and that a) we need to look for substantial technical/engine solutions to this problem and b) that GMs would enter into sort of a gentlemans agreement to not take advantage of these loopholes while the league is still working on the fixes. I even thought that something like what was suggested in the OP had already been established to a certain extent as a stopgap, but I guess I misremembered.

But apparently HAM decided to say screw that, ignore the whole "overall well-being of the league" thing and instead decided to focus on maximizing their own advantage they could get out of this situation. Which, by all means, is not against the rules or anything, but don't be so sanctimonious and expect people to be happy about it and like you for it. You were presented with a choice "Do we do what is good for the league, or do we do go what is good for us?", and you chose the latter, it's as simple as that. For the second time, by the way.

When you originally discovered the exploit I could have given you the benefit of the doubt, because looking for an advantage over other teams is part of a GMs job and we can't blame you for coming up with a creative and perfectly legal way to accomplish that. But since then it has become very clear how this exploit negatively affects the overall health of the league in numerous ways, but even though we have this knowledge now, you are still sticking to the plan to a certain extent. Of course we can't expect you to put points into attributes that you know will likely make your player worse, but you are still using the current system to rush your players to the SC max, leave PA untouched or even use regression to drop players PA ratings, making the most of our current broken system. Again, perfectly legal but certainly not helpful considering the overall situation of the league, and therefore not popular.

I give you that this series against Buffalo doesn't really count as proof for the argument against you though because you are right, flukes happen in STHS and in the playoffs no matter what and shit can be quite random with such a small sample size. We have no way of knowing how much the build changes influenced the results or goalie performances, the Conference Winner sweeping the Wildcard team certainly isn't something super crazy.  Don't let NOLA hear that though.
I think a lot of what you said here has merit and is really fair, genuinely the points you made are well thought out and expressed in a discussion-encouraging way. I’ll chime in just because I like the open nature this comment provides:

There were a few players who had the egregious scoring-passing differential that left some of them with 40 passing. Offseason saw 6 of these players have redistributions rejected because of it and those 6 players adjusting accordingly, as well as the regression updates to ensure the gap isn’t as severe on players who are regressing. As it stands there are still more shoot first players on Hamilton, but at this point when shooting has been proven to be the better stat, the only thing to fix it using sths is to willingly ask players to build players they dislike playing and put tpe into stats they dont care about, which is already a slog to do for stats you DO like with how TPE scales in older players. In addition to this, we didn’t slam the league like NOLA did, high scoring or not we have a playoff calibre team tpe-wise, it shouldnt be a surprise ir outrageous that we performed well.

I’ll agree that the attitude out of HAM could be better. I’ve personally apologized in past threads that the team as a whole could be more empathetic towards the site, and I don’t really enjoy the “get good” sentiment that the team has been putting out and I really dislike that a lot of the antagonizing of the group comes from the attitude we put out to the site like its us against the world, I’ll fully agree with you there thats a problem. I will clarify like others have in the past that this isn’t the second time we are taking advantage of the sim, when they first found this strat it produced good results but we legit NEVER saw anything sim breaking in the tests we put out, and I may be mistaken but the really broken results only came through in public tests where EVERYONE on Hamilton has 99 Scoring/40 Passing (not feasible), and the one team tested against had the reverse (40 Scoring/99 Passing). Again I might be misremembering there but if I’m not, I don’t think thats a fair, totally unbiased test, and this season’s results + our personal tests can speak to that.

Not much to say on the third paragraph other than you’re right, certainly people shouldn’t be expected to love it and the attitude out of Hamilton isn’t entirely a good one.

Lastly, yeah this is awfully small sample size and I really don’t like that now any time Hamilton wins a game people can default to saying “oh its the strat fuckin pricks”. We were a better team than Buffalo this season and our goalie has double the TPE, and we only outshot them by 6 shots. The scoring stat doesn’t make your players better at shooting it just makes them shoot MORE, so by this metric, the Buffalo series was a standard SHL playoff series, where goaltending decided the outcome. I don’t entirely see that as a fluke.

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#71

01-04-2020, 12:26 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: I have to say, it's disappointing to see the attitude HAM is taking towards this. After what happened in the offseason, i thought that we had collectively agreed that these PA-SC-shenanigans are something that can severely hurt the league as a whole and that a) we need to look for substantial technical/engine solutions to this problem and b) that GMs would enter into sort of a gentlemans agreement to not take advantage of these loopholes while the league is still working on the fixes. I even thought that something like what was suggested in the OP had already been established to a certain extent as a stopgap, but I guess I misremembered.
a) one of our players is at the forefront of helping the switch to a new engine
b) you made that up
the stopgap you're thinking of is you can't regress out of passing past 20 less than your scoring, so players wouldn't regress out of passing as an alternative to the frozen redistributions. Doesn't change anything about people who already had that gap.

01-04-2020, 12:26 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: But apparently HAM decided to say screw that, ignore the whole "overall well-being of the league" thing and instead decided to focus on maximizing their own advantage they could get out of this situation. Which, by all means, is not against the rules or anything, but don't be so sanctimonious and expect people to be happy about it and like you for it. You were presented with a choice "Do we do what is good for the league, or do we do go what is good for us?", and you chose the latter, it's as simple as that. For the second time, by the way.
were we supposed to put more tpe into passing knowing it would hurt more than help? I get how redistributing out of passing would be considered malicious because we're using tpe that we already sank into the attribute and assigning it elsewhere, but those redistributions were undone.


01-04-2020, 12:26 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: When you originally discovered the exploit I could have given you the benefit of the doubt, because looking for an advantage over other teams is part of a GMs job and we can't blame you for coming up with a creative and perfectly legal way to accomplish that. But since then it has become very clear how this exploit negatively affects the overall health of the league in numerous ways, but even though we have this knowledge now, you are still sticking to the plan to a certain extent.
the only way to not stick to the plan "to a certain extent" would have been to up passing just to be fair. Maybe some people expected that, but I don't get it.

01-04-2020, 12:26 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Of course we can't expect you to put points into attributes that you know will likely make your player worse,
you say this

01-04-2020, 12:26 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: but you are still using the current system to rush your players to the SC max, leave PA untouched or even use regression to drop players PA ratings, making the most of our current broken system. Again, perfectly legal but certainly not helpful considering the overall situation of the league, and therefore not popular.
and immediately contradict yourself with this. Are we supposed to put points into attributes that will make our player worse or are we not supposed to do that?

01-04-2020, 12:26 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: I give you that this series against Buffalo doesn't really count as proof for the argument against you though because you are right, flukes happen in STHS and in the playoffs no matter what and shit can be quite random with such a small sample size. We have no way of knowing how much the build changes influenced the results or goalie performances, the Conference Winner sweeping the Wildcard team certainly isn't something super crazy.  Don't let NOLA hear that though.

The buffalo series not only doesn't count as proof but completely contradicts the argument. The entire "cheat" is based on Hamilton getting an overwhelming amount of shots against the opponent and basically flooding the goalie to death. Having a grand total of six(6!) shots more than our opponents over the entire series and managing a sweep is purely STHS, our strategy had no bearing on the result.

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#72

01-04-2020, 01:49 PMpuolivalmiste Wrote: But I increased my scoring from 57 to 63 and my goals scored during regular increased by 200% despite me moving from SMJHL to SHL, clearly broken
tbh I would blame your Junior management, but only the CO. #hammybois #hammyconspiracy #dmillsisacutie #butheisalsoshort


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#73

01-04-2020, 03:17 PMNokazoa Wrote:
01-04-2020, 01:49 PMpuolivalmiste Wrote: But I increased my scoring from 57 to 63 and my goals scored during regular increased by 200% despite me moving from SMJHL to SHL, clearly broken
tbh I would blame your Junior management, but only the CO. #hammybois #hammyconspiracy #dmillsisacutie #butheisalsoshort

wow @ me next time

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#74

Disappointing attitude from Hamilton imo, they just won't lie down and take it from all sides after explaining their position multiple times over the last month

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#75

01-04-2020, 03:22 PMdmills3 Wrote:
01-04-2020, 03:17 PMNokazoa Wrote: tbh I would blame your Junior management, but only the CO. #hammybois #hammyconspiracy #dmillsisacutie #butheisalsoshort

wow @ me next time

nah. we know yall watching this thread, and that you are watching me, your favorite player behind Breton.


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