(also rioting is more than absolutely a valid form of protest and has been used many times in history as a genuine way to stir about change including the riots following MLK’s assassination resulting in the Civil Rights Act, The Berlin Wall’s riots which uhhh resulted in the Berlin Wall being torn down and The Boston Tea Part which resulted in uh literally the independence of America as a nation.)
**First GM in SMJHL history to win 3 Four Star Cups back-to-back-to-back**
06-02-2020, 06:16 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: so we’re supposed to listen to you instead, mr “the only books I own are Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro”? Mmm nah, gonna be a hard pass from me.
06-02-2020, 07:25 PMBasedMinkus Wrote: The classic "I've seen it, so this is the only truth" fallacy.
The one good thing about all the shit the BLM movement has to endure is that you can pick out the racists.
He said that police only responding when attacked wasn't true at all. I said there is truth to it. How does that make me racist? In the post earlier I even said that there ARE some bad cops, but they don't define everyone. How does that make me racist?
What makes you a racist is putting restrictions on what you will accept for protesting during BLM.
He didn't even, an hypothesis is technically correct and is used in many English-speaking regions where the H sound would be dropped in several words (eg. an historic day)
06-02-2020, 06:07 PMCarbine Wrote: Now, with that being said, and before someone calls me a racist, I largely support the BLM movement and their right to peaceful protest, like every other person in a free society. They aren't being withheld from that right, even during a worldwide pandemic (which has oddly become less of a big deal over the past few days, it seems). I do not support the rioting and looting that are being sparked by these protests, however. George Floyd's family has said on numerous occasions that they want the violence to stop. Wasn't his death the reason this all boiled over? Why are the riots and looting continuing then?
And as for Mark Rycroft, the reason this thread even exists, come on. The dude owns a liquor store that, presumably, was being looted during one of the riots in Colorado. I'd be pissed too if my business was being destroyed by lawless thugs. While I don't wish for a similar kind of retribution that he described, the reaction to what was probably a very emotional night for him is absolutely justified. Maybe not on a public forum, and as a locally known sportscaster, but justified nonetheless.
Just to focus on these two pieces.
People are being withheld from their right to peaceful protest. It has happened in Sacramento, LA, Denver, the list goes on. Hell peaceful protesting was the first thing that was tried when the BLM movement started (2013) with Kapernick kneeling and people had problems with that. There is history that shows rioting as being one of the only things people in charge will listen to (Civil Rights act passing in 68, Men abusing women in the suffrage movement to ratify the 19th amendment). Please do not act as though people didn't try to protest peacefully. The majority of the world is only taking notice of this because of the intense violence.
The second point. What Rycroft said was short-sighted and privileged. When White people got up in arms because they couldn't get a hair cut, no one bats an eye at the aggressiveness that some took but because it is a BLM issue, they have to do things in a certain way that make whites feel okay. There are two sides to this issue and if you are on the fence then you are on the side of being racist. Property can be rebuilt, black lives cannot be brought back.
Unfortunately just saying something has happened won't make me believe it actually happened at this point. If you're talking specifically about the civil rights protests and the suffrage movement, I'd be further inclined to take you at your word. But with all the chaos and editorialized news out there right now, you'd be hard-pressed to find a truly non-biased news source. I'm not so sure one exists anymore.
As for your second point, you had me for most of it until you pulled the 'only two sides' argument. Immediately labeling a group of people something that you know has a negative connotation is just getting stale. I have nothing else to say about the rest it, you showed your hand.
you have things backwards. This isn't 'ah people are rioting and therefore the police are fighting back' this is 'police are attacking peaceful protesters and therefore there are riots happening'. What do you want people to do, man? roll over and die? These riots are the product of generations of built up hatred and injustice in America, and to say that they should just stop is foolish and unsympathetic at best.
Police are only responding because they're getting attacked during the riots. Example: they burned down the police station (and many other buildings) in Minneapolis. Here in Vegas, these cops saved hundreds of lives during 1 October shooting, and now just last night one was shot in the head by a rioter. 99% of cops are good cops, and want to protect the people. Only 1% are bad, but everyone believes they are all bad. Every group of people has bad people; but that doesn't mean everyone else is bad.
And for the part of "rolling over and die," that's a terrible response, because that's what many people want the police to do, roll over and let the riots kill them and burn down the city.
let me start with
Quote:99% of cops are good cops
you see, the thing is, if it were true, then these 99% good cops, they'd turn in the bad cops, right? Why would you protect a racist murdering piece of shit, if you're a good cop? But what we see all too often is the bad cops getting off scot free, they arent fired, they arent prosecuted, jack shit happens. If the good cops dont turn in the bad cops, they themselves are bad cops - this is the logic behind ACAB.
now for
Quote:Police are only responding because they're getting attacked during the riots
if youll LOOK THROUGH THE THREAD youll see that plenty of evidence to the contrary has already been posted. Still saying this is ignorant. Come on, you're better than that.
and lastly,
Quote:Here in Vegas, these cops saved hundreds of lives during 1 October shooting
thats their job. and personally, im thanking the EMTs and medics first.
06-02-2020, 07:56 PMLoco Wrote: i'm gonna donate 10 dollars to bail funds every time carbine comments (up to $100).
Don't worry, he'll ghost on this thread just like he's ghosted on teams he's GM'd in multiple leagues. He's probably already hiding in his bunker with jcf.
06-02-2020, 06:42 PMBasedMinkus Wrote: Just to focus on these two pieces.
People are being withheld from their right to peaceful protest. It has happened in Sacramento, LA, Denver, the list goes on. Hell peaceful protesting was the first thing that was tried when the BLM movement started (2013) with Kapernick kneeling and people had problems with that. There is history that shows rioting as being one of the only things people in charge will listen to (Civil Rights act passing in 68, Men abusing women in the suffrage movement to ratify the 19th amendment). Please do not act as though people didn't try to protest peacefully. The majority of the world is only taking notice of this because of the intense violence.
The second point. What Rycroft said was short-sighted and privileged. When White people got up in arms because they couldn't get a hair cut, no one bats an eye at the aggressiveness that some took but because it is a BLM issue, they have to do things in a certain way that make whites feel okay. There are two sides to this issue and if you are on the fence then you are on the side of being racist. Property can be rebuilt, black lives cannot be brought back.
Unfortunately just saying something has happened won't make me believe it actually happened at this point. If you're talking specifically about the civil rights protests and the suffrage movement, I'd be further inclined to take you at your word. But with all the chaos and editorialized news out there right now, you'd be hard-pressed to find a truly non-biased news source. I'm not so sure one exists anymore.
As for your second point, you had me for most of it until you pulled the 'only two sides' argument. Immediately labeling a group of people something that you know has a negative connotation is just getting stale. I have nothing else to say about the rest it, you showed your hand.
06-02-2020, 06:42 PMBasedMinkus Wrote: Just to focus on these two pieces.
People are being withheld from their right to peaceful protest. It has happened in Sacramento, LA, Denver, the list goes on. Hell peaceful protesting was the first thing that was tried when the BLM movement started (2013) with Kapernick kneeling and people had problems with that. There is history that shows rioting as being one of the only things people in charge will listen to (Civil Rights act passing in 68, Men abusing women in the suffrage movement to ratify the 19th amendment). Please do not act as though people didn't try to protest peacefully. The majority of the world is only taking notice of this because of the intense violence.
The second point. What Rycroft said was short-sighted and privileged. When White people got up in arms because they couldn't get a hair cut, no one bats an eye at the aggressiveness that some took but because it is a BLM issue, they have to do things in a certain way that make whites feel okay. There are two sides to this issue and if you are on the fence then you are on the side of being racist. Property can be rebuilt, black lives cannot be brought back.
Unfortunately just saying something has happened won't make me believe it actually happened at this point. If you're talking specifically about the civil rights protests and the suffrage movement, I'd be further inclined to take you at your word. But with all the chaos and editorialized news out there right now, you'd be hard-pressed to find a truly non-biased news source. I'm not so sure one exists anymore.
As for your second point, you had me for most of it until you pulled the 'only two sides' argument. Immediately labeling a group of people something that you know has a negative connotation is just getting stale. I have nothing else to say about the rest it, you showed your hand.
2. You seemed to miss the part where someone literally handed you links to both BLM protesters not being the core group inciting violence, and examples of police on protest violence, so like here you go:
06-02-2020, 07:08 PMnotorioustig Wrote:
06-02-2020, 06:07 PMCarbine Wrote: Yes. I think that's pretty apparent to most people at this point.
Defending riots and looting isn't a good look dude. I don't care what the cause is, violence and the destruction of people's livelihoods should never be acceptable by any society. Furthermore, you immediately discredit this movement by shifting the blame to police and so-called 'white supremacists'. Police are required to be there - it's their job to uphold the Constitution in the US (see here). I haven't seen anything from any news source to suggest 'white supremacists' are instigating either. Have you? Be careful not to provide a pasty white kid in blackout clothing as proof because I'm pretty sure that's the standard 'uniform' for the newly (or soon to be newly) designated terrorist group, Antifa.
Sigh. No, it doesn't. Looting is stealing. It's a crime. A protest doesn't change that.
I have no idea what this 'social contract theory' thing is but perhaps it should stay as it's called: theory. A comedian probably isn't the best vehicle for explaining this kind of stuff either - regardless of his skin color. You wouldn't trust a fry cook, for example, with finding a cure to the coronavirus, would you?
Logically speaking, yes, you are correct when it comes to shaking up the status quo. However, the means do not justify the ends when it comes to this movement.
Rioting and looting will be and have been met with similarly destructive means by the police and private citizens so far. Police are oath-bound to confront these rioters (from the above link): “I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..." Private citizens are entitled to self-defense through the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution.
Now, with that being said, and before someone calls me a racist, I largely support the BLM movement and their right to peaceful protest, like every other person in a free society. They aren't being withheld from that right, even during a worldwide pandemic (which has oddly become less of a big deal over the past few days, it seems). I do not support the rioting and looting that are being sparked by these protests, however. George Floyd's family has said on numerous occasions that they want the violence to stop. Wasn't his death the reason this all boiled over? Why are the riots and looting continuing then?
And as for Mark Rycroft, the reason this thread even exists, come on. The dude owns a liquor store that, presumably, was being looted during one of the riots in Colorado. I'd be pissed too if my business was being destroyed by lawless thugs. While I don't wish for a similar kind of retribution that he described, the reaction to what was probably a very emotional night for him is absolutely justified. Maybe not on a public forum, and as a locally known sportscaster, but justified nonetheless.
It's not as if he was saying 'F*ck BLM' or something to that effect, despite how some people took it.
Here are some links I found pretty quickly after googling of white supremacists groups being suspected or confirmed as attempting to incite violence as well as deflect blame to the antifa boogeyman:
In these instances, the cops are starting the violence. All with cameras rolling.
3. You know what you have condemned in this thread? Rioting. You know what you haven't condemned in this thread? Police brutality. DESPITE BRINGING UP GEORGE FLOYD'S NAME.
06-02-2020, 08:11 PM(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020, 08:11 PM by JURT.)
06-02-2020, 07:47 PMCarbine Wrote: Do you want to make an argument against anything I said, or are you going to stick to semantics? Also,
Nah mate, lots of people have already debunked you way better than I can, just gonna address the fact that "it's a theory so it's not proven" and that kind of shit is stupid as fuck.
And if you think pointing out a typo is the same thing as pointing out the difference between a theory and a hypothesis, you're getting even further from the point and there's really no point arguing with you
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sköldpaddor
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