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Duff101 · 07-26-2020, 09:55 PM

Ah yes, the annual "bitch about awards because X didn't get Y award" post. But I think its important to look at something that a lot of IRL league award committees/voters are doing. The NBA, MLB and NHL (excepting a few awards like the Vezina that are voted on by GMs not the media) all make their top awards ballots public. It's time to publicize ballots for award voting. Doing so does two things: firstly it increases award voter accountability, by forcing voters to defend their choices in the public arena, and second it provides a disincentive for lazy or uninformed voting. This is in no way criticizing any specific voters or committees on any level, or any decisions they make, and is not made in reaction to any specific vote.

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Samsung virtual assistant · 07-26-2020, 10:12 PM

I want to know who to yell at for not being nominated for McBride

***hhh81*** · 07-26-2020, 10:18 PM

I'm open to revealing final voting totals (I just haven't figured out what the best way to do that might be). Do you have any suggestions?

I am definitely not comfortable revealing full ballots, however.

Duff101 · 07-26-2020, 10:20 PM

07-26-2020, 10:18 PMhhh81 Wrote: I'm open to revealing final voting totals (I just haven't figured out what the best way to do that might be). Do you have any suggestions?

I am definitely not comfortable revealing full ballots, however.

Why not? I remember one time I yelled at you for not getting a nom for something and you explained in 3 sentences or so why I wasn't. Shouldn't that be the standard?

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Duff101 · 07-26-2020, 10:36 PM

Also as a sidenote I feel the one exception to this is the Lindsay/Khan votes because those are fan votes and therefore more subject to bandwagoning.

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***sve7en*** · 07-26-2020, 10:38 PM

Totals, absolutely.

People's ballots, absolutely not, like hhh said. Voters shouldn't have to worry about blowback for making their votes.

Duff101 · 07-26-2020, 10:46 PM

07-26-2020, 10:38 PMsve7en Wrote: Totals, absolutely.

People's ballots, absolutely not, like hhh said. Voters shouldn't have to worry about blowback for making their votes.

Again I'll ask, why shouldn't they? Its not like there isn't any vitriol thrown at awards committees as is, and this also empowers voters to defend themselves from this vitriol with reasoned arguments.

Credit to Geck, Ragnar and Juni for sigs

***sve7en*** · 07-26-2020, 10:50 PM

07-26-2020, 10:46 PMDuff101 Wrote:
07-26-2020, 10:38 PMsve7en Wrote: Totals, absolutely.

People's ballots, absolutely not, like hhh said. Voters shouldn't have to worry about blowback for making their votes.
Again I'll ask, why shouldn't they? Its not like there isn't any vitriol thrown at awards committees as is, and this also empowers voters to defend themselves from this vitriol with reasoned arguments.

07-26-2020, 10:20 PMDuff101 Wrote: I remember one time I yelled at you for not getting a nom for something

Duff101 · 07-26-2020, 10:51 PM

07-26-2020, 10:50 PMsve7en Wrote:
07-26-2020, 10:46 PMDuff101 Wrote: Again I'll ask, why shouldn't they? Its not like there isn't any vitriol thrown at awards committees as is, and this also empowers voters to defend themselves from this vitriol with reasoned arguments.

07-26-2020, 10:20 PMDuff101 Wrote: I remember one time I yelled at you for not getting a nom for something

Did you read the second part? Also people will do that regardless, as noted by the fact that I did it without public ballots.

Credit to Geck, Ragnar and Juni for sigs

***CampinKiller*** · 07-26-2020, 10:53 PM

Because then people will attempt to influence the results by raking people's ballots thru the coals. They will insult, belittle, and rip into anyone who voted in a manner they didn't like.

In other words, people will be assholes if they knew who voted for who

Duff101 · 07-26-2020, 10:55 PM

07-26-2020, 10:53 PMCampinKiller Wrote: Because then people will attempt to influence the results by raking people's ballots thru the coals. They will insult, belittle, and rip into anyone who voted in a manner they didn't like.

In other words, people will be assholes if they knew who voted for who

How would it influence the results if its done after the fact? Also again, if you voted for someone you should be able to defend them.

Credit to Geck, Ragnar and Juni for sigs

***sve7en*** · 07-26-2020, 10:57 PM

07-26-2020, 10:55 PMDuff101 Wrote:
07-26-2020, 10:53 PMCampinKiller Wrote: Because then people will attempt to influence the results by raking people's ballots thru the coals. They will insult, belittle, and rip into anyone who voted in a manner they didn't like.

In other words, people will be assholes if they knew who voted for who
How would it influence the results if its done after the fact? Also again, if you voted for someone you should be able to defend them.

People won't vote for the people they want if they're worried it's gonna start a shitstorm. No one cares about their position on the award committee more than their mental health and enjoyments of the site.

Duff101 · 07-26-2020, 11:02 PM

07-26-2020, 10:57 PMsve7en Wrote:
07-26-2020, 10:55 PMDuff101 Wrote: How would it influence the results if its done after the fact? Also again, if you voted for someone you should be able to defend them.

People won't vote for the people they want if they're worried it's gonna start a shitstorm. No one cares about their position on the award committee more than their mental health and enjoyments of the site.

Would an adequate compromise be having a google spreadsheet with all ballots published, but the writers of said ballots anonymous?

such as, Voter A voted blahblahblah for this award, durdurdur for this award, etc etc

Credit to Geck, Ragnar and Juni for sigs

***CampinKiller*** · 07-26-2020, 11:02 PM

07-26-2020, 10:55 PMDuff101 Wrote:
07-26-2020, 10:53 PMCampinKiller Wrote: Because then people will attempt to influence the results by raking people's ballots thru the coals. They will insult, belittle, and rip into anyone who voted in a manner they didn't like.

In other words, people will be assholes if they knew who voted for who
How would it influence the results if its done after the fact? Also again, if you voted for someone you should be able to defend them.

Say I vote for player A, who was just as likely to win an award as player B. The teammates and friends of player B come out and harass me, causing a shitstorm, etc, and disregard my explanations because they don’t like it. Now next season, I’m faced with the same choice and vote for Player B because I avoid the shitstorm.

Alternatively, say I vote for someone’s player and that person has a controversial reputation. It shouldn’t factor into the decision, but people come and attack me for doing it. Same result as before.

People won’t be defending their choices, they’ll be crucified for them

***hhh81*** · 07-26-2020, 11:03 PM

When people have questions or concerns or are frankly pissed, I usually get DMs from those GMs trying to get more context on the decisions. I provide that context, answer as many questions as I can, etc. I also am present during awards shows to provide as much context and justification as I can during the show. I take the brunt of things because I believe in my team and don't want them to have to have their work cross examined and ripped apart by the public. If someone has to take abuse, I rather that be me than any one individual of my committee.

I think presenting the final vote tallies, rather than 9 individual ballots, could provide a lot of what you're seeking here (which I think is a positive thing). I'm not sure what additional value the public gets from seeing the individual ballots that outweighs the potential harm that could come from forum brigading when people disagree with and target one person out of the group.

The difference, I feel, is while there is vitriol either way potentially, in one version the brunt of that is put on me as committee head, versus individual people getting targeted. I don't want the committee to feel like they have an angry mob over their shoulders while they're making decisions so they second guess the hard work they do (which, honestly, is more well-thought out than most users on the site do when they see awards). Committee members aren't barred from revealing their ballots or votes; I just do not want to force anyone's private ballots to be made public.

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