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spooked · 09-17-2020, 11:48 PM

Seems like a weird idea maybe, but reducing training costs for send downs might help site activity and help improve the impact cash has on newer players. I put a longer case study on it in media:

https://simulationhockey.com/showthread.php?tid=110464

TL;DR of that thread: Reduce training cost for send downs or at least 3 seasons post SHL draft to make it easier for players to afford the cash-based tpe, and not have immediate negative gameplay experiences when they can no longer afford max training after only a couple months on the site. This will help improve user retention, potentially create media as users may be closer to being able to afford seasonal coaching, and very slightly improve the quality of *some* send downs who are not able to currently afford full training or coaching. This change should not impact the high end of each draft class much, it will help them save a bit of money on the way to the SHL, but it does so with the opportunity of potentially increasing the user base overall, as well as the size of each respective draft class, something which often helps create an even more enjoyable experience for even the richest or involved players on the site.

ACapitalChicago · 09-18-2020, 12:03 AM

This seems like a fair idea

S66 Damian Littleton

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***Rotti*** · 09-18-2020, 12:10 AM

100% agree. It really doesn't make much sense to have the price of training increase, while contract income decreases.

***aleks*** · 09-18-2020, 12:12 AM

spooked you are dumb

spooked · 09-18-2020, 12:20 AM

09-18-2020, 12:12 AMdmuda11 Wrote: spooked you are dumb

You can't just come into my home and insult me

Samsung virtual assistant · 09-18-2020, 12:22 AM

IMO people need to learn ASAP that affording max training is earned, not given. I don't know what send down salaries look like these days but arent send-downs earning about the same as lower tpe tier SHL players?

I don't really care though, gimme back-pay tho pls :eyes:

Nhamlet · 09-18-2020, 12:34 AM

One potentially unintended effect of the contract changes of introducing the additional 6th tier is that for teams who may be competitive or have higher TPE players will naturally be inclined to sign rookie players for less, quite often the minimum. Going from a 4M contract to a 2.5M while the costs of coaching and training exponentially increasing is a significant hit and is unsurprising that many folks drop out once the initial rush of the drafts have worn out.

***golden_apricot*** · 09-18-2020, 07:12 AM

nah, max training should be earned. yes it is easier for some of the higher profile recreates to max earn because of this but they spent at times years of their life on this site doing things to earn the ability to do that. Lots of changes are being made to make it easier to max earn which is not necessarily a bad thing but at some point we need to slow down on that end.

spooked · 09-18-2020, 08:19 AM

09-18-2020, 07:12 AMgolden_apricot Wrote: nah, max training should be earned. yes it is easier for some of the higher profile recreates to max earn because of this but they spent at times years of their life on this site doing things to earn the ability to do that. Lots of changes are being made to make it easier to max earn which is not necessarily a bad thing but at some point we need to slow down on that end.

It still won't be easy. Literally the highest paid player on the site still would not have enough to max earn and they have an inflated FA contract. Max earning would still require well over 10 mil a season and that would still be roughly 8-10 million more than any send down would likely make.

***golden_apricot*** · 09-18-2020, 09:17 AM

09-18-2020, 08:19 AMspooked Wrote:
09-18-2020, 07:12 AMgolden_apricot Wrote: nah, max training should be earned. yes it is easier for some of the higher profile recreates to max earn because of this but they spent at times years of their life on this site doing things to earn the ability to do that. Lots of changes are being made to make it easier to max earn which is not necessarily a bad thing but at some point we need to slow down on that end.
It still won't be easy. Literally the highest paid player on the site still would not have enough to max earn and they have an inflated FA contract. Max earning would still require well over 10 mil a season and that would still be roughly 8-10 million more than any send down would likely make.

yes, the point is you need more than a contract to be a max earner. you need to do things to help the site run which comes in either site jobs or media that helps attract people to the site and keep them here. sure you can decrease the training for smjhl players when they are getting paid "less" but that just pushes back the mark of when they will struggle to do the 1M training to their call up time at which they are likely still going to be on 3M contracts. All your suggestion really does that helps long term is giving players more time to get site jobs, which there is value to that. The contracts going down isnt a problem with SHL salaries, its a problem with the inflation of SMJHL salaries as a result of adding in a cap and the 2M HO bonus to all rookie contracts, which results in some rookies getting 5-7M contracts which is absurd for 90% of shl players, so from that perspective i would even argue for reducing smjhl contracts to some extent.

PremierBromanov · 09-18-2020, 09:27 AM

There's definitely a difficulty curve with getting your bank account up and running. Its really helpful if you get recruited because of the bonus money. Is that something we do/should offer to all new players?

Baelor Swift · 09-18-2020, 09:58 AM

09-18-2020, 12:22 AMJAJA SWEG DINGDONG Wrote: IMO people need to learn ASAP that affording max training is earned, not given. I don't know what send down salaries look like these days but arent send-downs earning about the same as lower tpe tier SHL players?

I don't really care though, gimme back-pay tho pls :eyes:

These first gens think the SHL will coddle them so they can go and eat avocado toast and post tiktok memes well let me tell you what first gens back when I created, I wasn't asking for handouts and telling the SHL they should give me this and give me that I was WORKING HARD and had a JOB! I bet these first gens don't even know what a JOB is.

spooked · 09-18-2020, 09:59 AM

09-18-2020, 09:17 AMgolden_apricot Wrote:
09-18-2020, 08:19 AMspooked Wrote: It still won't be easy. Literally the highest paid player on the site still would not have enough to max earn and they have an inflated FA contract. Max earning would still require well over 10 mil a season and that would still be roughly 8-10 million more than any send down would likely make.

yes, the point is you need more than a contract to be a max earner. you need to do things to help the site run which comes in either site jobs or media that helps attract people to the site and keep them here. sure you can decrease the training for smjhl players when they are getting paid "less" but that just pushes back the mark of when they will struggle to do the 1M training to their call up time at which they are likely still going to be on 3M contracts. All your suggestion really does that helps long term is giving players more time to get site jobs, which there is value to that. The contracts going down isnt a problem with SHL salaries, its a problem with the inflation of SMJHL salaries as a result of adding in a cap and the 2M HO bonus to all rookie contracts, which results in some rookies getting 5-7M contracts which is absurd for 90% of shl players, so from that perspective i would even argue for reducing smjhl contracts to some extent.

I totally agree with the stance you have in terms of being a max earner, but I think providing a relatively "homework" free experience for the first 2-6 months is important. As you said I think it provides a bit more time to get into the site, jobs, etc. Now the values can adjust, HO will figure out what it might look like and how long it lasts, but I think a small improvement in this time frame would go a long way in helping out some members which currently get a very harsh time. I could even see cutting SMJHL rookie income a bit to introduce the need for media/jobs a bit earlier in a softer environment where a 500 word article could cover training easily, but I think that small change in combination with some help for seasons 2,3, maybe 4 - even on a half life type scale - would be well warranted and very helpful.

LordBirdman · 09-18-2020, 10:26 AM

Player retention is pretty bad here (probably worth a media piece to look at the rate of attrition sometime) and that is directly related to the difficulty in being able to continually improve your player. Max earning is still going to be difficult and still require site jobs/media to pay for equipment each season. If anything lower the weekly training and bump up the max equipment cost to make that balance more appropriate.

Zema · 09-18-2020, 10:39 AM

One argument I have yet to see is that efficiency of TPE has fallen down. Of what I've heard, a guy with 500-600 TPE could still not be complete garbage in the SHL, but with FHM that has changed. The goal should probably tbe to make the bottom players on a roster be at 800 TPE scaling up.

As someone previously mentioned, player retention is pretty bad. There is also a big thing in the community that if you aren't earning max you don't really have a place in the SHL.

I think lowering the costs for send-downs will help. But I also think slightly upping the TPE gain from the lower tiers of training could be worth looking into. instead of 1-3-5, making it 2-4-5 could be better.

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