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Can we please talk about this amazing article from tom fiddler
#1

Today, I'll be detailing for you a system I've been thinking about over the last couple of days based on the conversations we've had regarding TPE cost, particularly with lowering the cost of TPE from ratings 5 to 15 to increase the speed at which younger players influence the league. In addition to that proposition, it was proposed that we allow players to increase their TPE beyond 20. Crucial to this fact AND considering my proposition, it must be known that from 5 to 20 the progression is linear. However, after 20, each successive rank is greater than the one before it. The difference between 19 and 20 is less than the difference between 20 and 21 and the difference between 20 and 21 is less than the difference between 21 and 22. In terms of that rating system, we might consider, hypothetically, the TPE cost being 50-60 for 20 to 21 and maybe 70-80 for 21 to 22. This is not based on any real number we know about, but FHM devs have confirmed that the linear scale ends at 20 and increases with each level. We don't know how much but its significant.

SO, keeping that in mind -- the idea that we could go above 20 and it would be significant -- consider the following idea:

Actually, before we dive into the idea, let's detail the problem.

Awhile ago, NOLA and others deployed a team of all agitators in the preseason. It was surmised that, based on preliminary testing, that all agitators was the strategy that would see the most wins for teams involved. This caused a stir, mostly because, and this is my opinion, it bothers people's fantasy of a hockey team and its "Not supposed to" go that way. But beyond that, the issue of player agency was brought to light, and THIS is the problem. Users using the build tool will see the list of player roles and it will highlight important stats for those roles. This helps users build their player to fit a specific style and that style also comes loaded with a fantasy.

We could talk all day about the importance of the fantasy (head-canon, if you will) of the SHL. It's important for players to create an avatar, to imagine him playing a certain way, and to see those rules on the score sheet. No one builds a sniping winger and expects that player to be deployed as an agitator. Beyond the fantasy, agitators aren't as focused with scoring as a sniper might be, so players who want to build high scorers, players who want to lead the league or win awards, cannot do so if their GM doesn't deploy them correctly. This is the problem, there is a lack of player agency in role selection. In fact, you don't select a role at all.

However, limiting GMs in how they deploy their players is taking away GM agency. GMs in this league act as coaches, and indeed some teams have that role separate, so we can think of this like coach agency. And while GM agency is far fewer people and we are far less concerned with how they like it, I think we still want to keep this in mind because the more freedom GMs have to build and play their team, the more good GMs separate themselves from the bad GMs. Having the ability for you to be drafted by, traded to, or sign with a good GM is something I think every player in this league appreciates. It's boring when every GM is the same.

So with that in mind, we want to preserve *some* aspect of how GMs deploy their players.

Now lets talk about a solution I've discussed before, which is limiting players to 5 or so roles (4 for defense) that the players select. This idea requires a bit of overhead. It opens up room for mistakes from auditors and GMs alike. It's just another rule that can tank a team and requires a lot of overhead. Its like adding another team of updaters. And while we said that it's good for good GMs to separate themselves from bad GMs, we would like bad GMs to lose and not be fired or their team punished, making them even worse in the future.

So, we've got 3 things to keep in mind:

1. Scores above 20 are significant
2. Player agency is threatened by GM agency
3. Some amount of GM agency is good for the league

knowing those three things, and understanding that this idea is not a fix, but rather a salve, a bandaid, a crutch -- understanding that, I'm proposing this system because I think it would increase player agency by helping them build and succeed at roles they like.

At creation every player selects a player role from the list. These are things like Sniper, Two-Way Forward, Stay at home Defenseman, etc. (You can read about them here). Each role has certain stats that are important to it. Some have 6, some have 7, some have 8. When a player selects a role, that role is locked in and could be changed as often as positions can be changed per the current rules (I think that is once a season). The player receives a permanent +1 to each important stat ON TOP OF their current stats. For the roles with 7 important stats, one of the stats will be a +2. For the roles with 6, two of the stats will be +2. So always 8 total pluses. Furthermore, I wanted to limit the amount of +2s in each category (Offense, Defense, Physical). For instance, Playmaker has a +2 in Puckhandling and Agility. The +2 would probably be more useful in Passing and Puckhandling or maybe Offensive read. But I wanted to ensure they were spread out, that no one role is best at offense as a whole, or defense as a whole, or skating.

What this means is that after update, the updater will look at the role and increase that stat by 1 (or 2). So if you have 5 in an important stat, it becomes 6. If you have 10, it becomes 11. The effect here is that the stat is worth more TPE the more you put into it. If you have that stat at 20, it goes to 21 (or 22).

The result of this is two-fold. One, your player is organically good at the things you want them to be good at because it's cheaper for you to be good at it compared to other roles and two, GMs are incentivized to deploy you at your preferred role because you player will be that much better at it within the system.

Now, many important stats overlap. From my findings, the most common +1 stat for forwards was Puckhandling and Balance, 12 and 13 apiece (out of 21, including goons). There were no improvements to shooting range, or shot blocking. Every attribute also has a +2 across the 21 roles, except for Getting Open, Shooting Range, Shot Blocking, Face-offs, and Stamina. Strength, Fighting, Aggression, and Bravery all have 2 +2s (strength has 3) because of the fact that goons and enforcers have 6 important stats and one of those is Determination, which we don't change. For now, I kept those as having 5 stats, so they get 2 in strength, 2 in fighting, 2 in aggression or bravery.

For defense, out of the 14 roles, 9 were for puck handling, 8 were for balance as well. A common theme. Every stat has a +1 except Faceoffs. The stats without a +2 are Screening, Getting Open, Shooting Accuracy, Shooting Range, Stickchecking, Shot blocking, Faceoffs, Agility, Balance, Stamina. As with goons and enforcers, there are three +2s for strength, two for fighting, and two for aggression, and one for bravery.

In addition to using the "key attribute" to determine which stat got a +2 (if needed), i wanted to make sure no attribute shared a +2 with another role. So if you really wanted to focus on screening, there is an obvious choice, but not at the cost of, for example, passing or something. Most of the time, there wasn't much I had to change. I think the biggest thing was Sniper and Garbage collector share a key attribute in Shooting Accuracy. I determined the sniper was more useful for shooting accuracy and gave Garbage Collector a +2 in Balance. These are things we could tweak if we wanted.

So, based on my research, I've compiled a spreadsheet, which I will detail below for more media monies. Goalies dont get roles, they can go fuck themselves.

Goal Scorer

Perimeter Shooter

Quote:
A player who attempts to create scoring chances by getting open in a position that's farther out from the net and shooting frequently from there.

Getting Open: +1 (key)
Puckhandling: +1
Shooting Accuracy: +1
Offensive Read: +1
Acceleration: +1
Agility: +1
Balance: +1
Speed: +1


Sniper

Quote:
This player, once in the offensive zone, focuses almost entirely in getting himself into position to score, mainly from in close.

For sniper, I wanted to give the +2 to shooting accuracy because it's a key attribute for the role and it felt like common sense to enhance the fantasy of the sniper with making them good at shooting.

Screening: +1
Getting Open: +1
Puckhandling: +1
Shooting Accuracy: +2 (key)
Offensive Read: +1
Acceleration: +1
Speed: +1

Garbage Collector

Quote:
An opportunisitc player who lingers near (but not necessarily in front of) the net to knock in rebounds or tip pucks past the goalie.

Garbage Collector also has a key attribute in shooting accuracy, but I wanted to differentiate it more from Sniper. Screening is a good choice, but Screener takes that +2. Perhaps Getting Open would be a great attribute, but I felt the fantasy of fighting for position in front of the goalie, staying on your feet and generally tucking pucks into the net was a good choice for Balance. Also, no other role has Balance with a +2, meanwhile others have Agility.

Screening: +1
Getting Open: +1
Shooting Accuracy: +1 (key)
Offensive Read: +1
Agility: +1
Balance: +2
Strength: +1

Offensive Forward

Dangler

Quote:
The kind of player who has very little interest in helping out defensively - he'll linger up near (or past) the blueline when his team is defending, hoping for a long pass or a miscue by the opposing defensemen.

Getting Open: +1 (key)
Puckhandling: +1
Shooting Accuracy: +1
Offensive Read: +1
Acceleration: +1
Agility: +1
Balance: +1
Speed: +1

Speedy Forward

Quote:
A forward whose main contribution to the team is getting up-ice very quickly and forcing the defenders to play him conservatively or risk a breakaway or odd-man rush.

Speedy forward is the obvious choice for Speed as a +2. It's in the name, and its also a key attribute.

Getting Open: +1
Puckhandling: +1
Offensive Read: +1
Acceleration: +1
Agility: +1
Balance: +1
Speed: +2 (key)

Playmaker

Playmaker

Quote:
A generous player whose main offensive concern is finding a teammate in a position to score and getting the puck to him.

Playmakers and Setup men both have passing as a key attribute. Both have 6 important stats. So i wanted to make sure we covered every stat possible. in my mind, Playmakers are more about that Datsyuk, Crosby, Toews players who are great puck handlers. They're fun to watch and incredibly shifty. So I gave Playmaker the puckhandling and Agility bonus. Both roles also share two physical stats in acceleration and agility. They're so similar, I had to differentiate them somehow.

Passing: +1 (key)
Puckhandling: +2
Offensive Read: +1
Faceoffs: +1
Acceleration: +1
Agility: +2

Setup Man

Quote:
A player who focuses narrowly on getting the puck to the other forwards on his line to generate scoring chances.

The description of Setup man spoke more to passing than Playmaker did, so I gave it passing. Perhaps we could swap both roles' physical +2 stat.

Passing: +2 (key)
Puckhandling: +1
Offensive Read: +1
Stickchecking: +1
Acceleration: +2
Agility: +1

Gretzky's Office

Quote:
A centre who sets up behind the net while in the offensive zone, using that position to get a better view of the ice, and limiting the opposition's ability to cover him.

When the name of a role contains the name Gretzky and when that role's key attribute is Offensive Read, you give that stat +2. If any role is going to have that cutting edge with a stat so important, it should be this role.

Getting Open: +1
Passing: +1
Puckhandling: +1
Offensive Read: +2 (key)
Faceoffs: +1
Agility: +1
Stamina: +1

Power Forward

Screener

Quote:
A player who positions himself in front of the net and attempts to screen the goalie and/or tip shots past him.

The only role with Screening as it's key deserves the only +2 to screening. its also in the name. Bingo bango.

Screening: +2 (key)
Getting Open: +1
Puckhandling: +1
Shooting Accuracy: +1
Faceoffs: +1
Balance: +1
Stamina: +1

Power Forward

Quote:
The kind of player who uses size and strength to dominate the offensive zone, particularly along the boards and by driving to the net.

Screening: +1
Getting Open: +1
Puckhandling: +1
Checking: +1
Hitting: +1
Balance: +1
Speed: +1
Strength: +1 (key)

Two-Way Forward

Counter-Attacking Forward

Quote:
A player who comes back deep into his own zone while defending, but is always looking to stage a rapid breakout if his team can get the puck.

With the only Two-way Forward role with 7 stats instead of 8, i gave the +2 to defensive read. I have a concern here that Two-way forward has a key in defensive read, yet this role has the +2. Might people select this role to be deployed as two way forward? The other option is stickchecking, which seems rather boring, in my opinion. The key difference in these roles is that this role is better at skating.

Passing: +1
Offensive Read: +1 (key)
Stickchecking: +1
Defensive Read: +2
Acceleration: +1
Agility: +1
Speed: +1

Two-Way Forward

Quote:
A common role for players that expects them to be attentive at both ends of the ice, but in a fairly conservative manner.


Passing: +1
Puckhandling: +1
Offensive Read: +1
Checking: +1
Positioning: +1
Stickchecking: +1
Defensive Read: +1 (key)
Balance: +1


Up and Down Winger

Quote:
An old-school forward who 'stays in his lane', rarely deviating from the side of the ice that he's assigned to, both on offense and defense.


Puckhandling: +1
Shooting Accuracy: +1
Checking: +1
Positioning: +1 (key)
Stickchecking: +1
Agility: +1
Balance: +1
Speed: +1

Grinder

Grinder

Quote:
This type of player 'gets his nose dirty', going into the corners to retrieve the puck or deny it to the opposition in a manner that involves a lot of body contact.

The only role with a key in bravery gets the +2 in bravery. Don't know how that will shake out, most players cap out around 12 or 14 for bravery. But, if your team is going to deploy their 1 agitator, it better be the guy with a +2.

Screening: +1
Checking: +1
Hitting: +1
Stickchecking: +1
Balance: +1
Strength: +1
Bravery: +2 (key)

Aggressive Forechecker

Quote:
This player's main focus is on disrupting his opponent's breakouts by going deep into their zone and harassing the puck carrier.

Forecheckers need to be good at checking. The other option was to give the +2 to Defensive Read, but with the key stat being checking, it made sense to do it this way.

Checking: +2 (key)
Hitting: +1
Stickchecking: +1
Defensive Read: +1
Acceleration: +1
Balance: +1
Speed: +1

Punishing Forward

Quote:
A forward who's always looking to intimidate opponents by throwing a big hit, or several of them.

Another rare role with only 6 important stats. Obviously, hitting should be +2. Thats a no brainer. That leaves screening, balance, and strength. I think strength fits best here.

Screening: +1
Checking: +1
Hitting: +2 (key)
Stickchecking: +1
Balance: +1
Strength: +2

Defensive Forward

Backchecking Forward

Quote:
A forward whose first defensive priority is getting back deep into his own zone to establish strong defensive positioning.


Puckhandling: +1
Checking: +1
Positioning: +1 (key)
Stickchecking: +1
Defensive Read: +1
Acceleration: +1
Balance: +1
Speed: +1

Shadow

Quote:
A player who focuses in on a key offensive player on the opposing line, attempting to shut him down offensively w/o regard for much else. Will reduce the ability of the opposing line's best player to get into scoring position and make plays.

Shadows are so rare that I felt like Aggressive Forechecker should be the sole owner of +2 to checking. But hey, we could change that rule, its not set in stone.

Puckhandling: +1
Checking: +1 (key)
Positioning: +2
Stickchecking: +1
Defensive Read: +1
Balance: +1
Speed: +1

Enforcer

Agitator

Quote:
An irritating player who tries to get under the skin of his opponents, playing a chippy (even dirty) style that's designed to provoke retaliation and get the other team off their game. Will lower the Temperament attribute of opponents, leading them to take more penalties.

The only role with a key stat in aggression, might as well hand it to them.

Screening: +1
Checking: +1
Hitting: +1
Stickchecking: +1
Balance: +1
Fighting: +1
Aggression: +2 (key)


Goon

Quote:
The guy who's there to fight, and not do much else. Will reduce opponent's bravery, unless countered by presence of the opponent's goons and/or enforcers.

Goons and Enforcers Both have an important stat in Determination, which we've locked at 15. I dont know if it makes sense to give that stat a bump to 16, so I've simply just reduced them to 5 important stats. Look, if you're gonna be a goon, you might as well be really good at it.

Screening: +1
Strength: +2
Fighting: +2
Aggression: +2
Bravery: +1

Enforcer

Quote:
A less-rambunctious version of the goon, he's very willing to fight, but usually only with good reason, like protecting a teammate.Will reduce opponent's bravery, unless countered by presence of the opponent's goons and/or enforcers.

In my mind, an enforcer needs to be more brave than aggressive.

Screening: +1
Strength: +2
Fighting: +2
Aggression: +1
Bravery: +2

Offensive Defenseman

Playmaking Defenseman

Quote:
A defenceman who tries to generate offense but won't shoot much himself, instead looking for an open teammate.

The only Defenseman with a key in passing. Give it to them.

Getting Open: +1
Passing: +2 (key)
Puckhandling: +1
Shooting Accuracy: +1
Offensive Read: +1
Acceleration: +1
Agility: +1

Rushing Defenseman

Quote:
A defenceman who wants to take charge of breakouts himself, rushing up the ice and often getting involved in play deep in the offensive zone.

The only defenseman with a key in Speed.

Puckhandling: +1
Shooting Accuracy: +1
Shooting Range: +1
Offensive Read: +1
Acceleration: +1
Agility: +1
Speed: +2 (key)

Quarterback

Quote:
A puck-distributing defenceman who wants the puck to be on his stick in the offensive zone, whether it's to hit a teammate with an accurate pass or take the shot himself.

The only defenseman with a key in offensive read.

Passing: +1
Puckhandling: +1
Shooting Accuracy: +1
Offensive Read: +2 (key)
Acceleration: +1
Agility: +1
Stamina: +1

Point Shooter

Quote:
A defenceman who sets up at the point and expects to be fed the puck so he can create scoring chances with a big slapshot.

Getting Open: +1
Puckhandling: +1
Shooting Accuracy: +1
Shooting Range: +1 (key)
Offensive Read: +1
Acceleration: +1
Agility: +1
Stamina: +1

Two-Way Defenseman

Two-Way Defenseman

Quote:
Like his forward counterpart, this player pays equal attention to both offensive and defensive zones.

Passing: +1
Puckhandling: +1
Offensive Read: +1
Positioning: +1 (key)
Stickchecking: +1
Defensive Read: +1
Balance: +1
Speed: +1

Mobile Defenseman

Quote:
A defenceman who uses strong skating skills to play an effective two-way game, getting into position quickly and often moving the puck himself.

The only role with a key in acceleration.

Puckhandling: +1
Positioning: +1
Stickchecking: +1
Acceleration: +2 (key)
Agility: +1
Balance: +1
Speed: +1

Defensive Defenseman

Stay-at-Home Defenseman

Quote:
The kind of defenceman who is tightly focused on keeping the puck out of his team's net and not very interested in generating offense himself.

Between stay at home and old school defenseman having a key in positioning and a +2 to hand out, i gave stay at home defenseman the bump with positioning, because it felt like that spoke more to the fantasy.

Puckhandling: +1
Checking: +1
Positioning: +2 (key)
Stickchecking: +1
Shot Blocking: +1
Balance: +1
Strength: +1

Crease-Clearing Defenseman

Quote:
A big, strong defenceman who does not like opposing forwards sitting in front of his goalie and will move aggressively to clear them out. Will lower the Temperament attribute of opponents, leading them to take more penalties.

Having two +2s to hand out is nice. Strength was obvious, so i gave it to puckhandling, which seems to me better for those moments of trying to battle in the crease. plus, stickchecking isnt important.

Puckhandling: +2
Checking: +1
Hitting: +1
Positioning: +1
Balance: +1
Strength: +2 (key)

Punishing Defenseman

Quote:
A defenceman who thinks the best way to get the puck away from the opponent is with a bone-crushing bodycheck.

The only defenseman with a key in hitting.

Puckhandling: +1
Checking: +1
Hitting: +2 (key)
Shot Blocking: +1
Balance: +1
Strength: +1
Fighting: +1

Shutdown Defenseman

Quote:
A defenceman whose main concern is limiting the offensive potential of the opposing line, but in a more robust and active way than a traditional stay-at-home defender.

The only defenseman with a key in defensive read.

Puckhandling: +1
Checking: +1
Hitting: +1
Defensive Read: +2 (key)
Acceleration: +1
Balance: +1
Stamina: +1

Old-school Defenseman

Quote:
The defenceman's equivalent of the stay-in-your-lanes forward, a conservative positional game punctuated with aggressiveness.

Passing: +1
Checking: +2
Positioning: +1 (key)
Shot Blocking: +1
Defensive Read: +1
Balance: +1
Stamina: +1

Agitator, Goon, Enforcer same as forwards.

~3950 words, give or take a few

Ready for grading. Please give half to @Fitted2106
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Online Fitted2106
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#209-12-2020, 04:56 PM
This is fucking amazing
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Online Fitted2106
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#309-12-2020, 08:07 PM
People need to read this
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Offline SlashACM
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#409-12-2020, 09:17 PM
>Goalies dont get roles, they can go fuck themselves.

Wanna watch?
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Offline PremierBromanov
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#509-12-2020, 09:19 PM
09-12-2020, 09:17 PMSlashACM Wrote:
>Goalies dont get roles, they can go fuck themselves.

Wanna watch?

Yes
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#2

We need another expansion

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#3

grade it

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Fuck the penaltys
ARGARGARHARG
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#4

09-21-2020, 09:49 AMSlashACM Wrote: We need another expansion

We need to make backups matter

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#5

What if I want to be an Orc Warlock?

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#6

09-21-2020, 11:10 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote:
09-21-2020, 09:49 AMSlashACM Wrote: We need another expansion

We need to make backups matter

we need to add a 4th line

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Fuck the penaltys
ARGARGARHARG
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#7

09-21-2020, 11:12 AMSkeleton Party Wrote: What if I want to be an Orc Warlock?

+2 Strength
+1 Con
-2 Int

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Fuck the penaltys
ARGARGARHARG
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#8

09-21-2020, 11:28 AMPremierBromanov Wrote: we need to add a 4th line

Won't that empty most SMJHL first lines tho? I feel like if that's the way to go it should have been done instead of an expansion, but now players are pretty much all in the right place. If we'd do that now a lot of SMJHL teams will roll IFAs on the 4th.

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#9

09-21-2020, 02:59 PMlespoils Wrote:
09-21-2020, 11:28 AMPremierBromanov Wrote: we need to add a 4th line

Won't that empty most SMJHL first lines tho? I feel like if that's the way to go it should have been done instead of an expansion, but now players are pretty much all in the right place. If we'd do that now a lot of SMJHL teams will roll IFAs on the 4th.

its a big discussion, but depends how players feel about it. Some feel as though the J robs them of SHL years, whereas others really enjoy their junior teams and a chance at the 4-star cup. Having or not having a 4th line directly impacts how long people generally stay in the J. However, I think the 4th allows more casual players to find a home in the SHL, so you don't need to be a max earner to find a place in this league.

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ARGARGARHARG
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#10

Can we talk about the mail, please, @Fitted2106? I've been dying to talk about the mail with you all day, OK? "Pepe Silvia," this name keeps coming up over and over again. Every day Pepe's mail is getting sent back to me. Pepe Silvia! Pepe Silvia! I look in the mail, and this whole box is Pepe Silvia! So I say to myself, "I gotta find this guy! I gotta go up to his office and put his mail in the guy's goddamn hands! Otherwise, he's never going to get it and he's going to keep coming back down here." So I go up to Pepe's office and what do I find out, Mac? What do I find out?! There is no Pepe Silvia. The man does not exist, okay? So I decide, "Oh shit, buddy, I gotta dig a little deeper." There's no Pepe Silvia? You gotta be kidding me! I got boxes full of Pepe! All right. So I start marchin' my way down to Carol in HR and I knock on her door and I say, "Carol! Carol! I gotta talk to you about Pepe." And when I open the door what do I find? There's not a single goddamn desk in that office! There...is...no...Carol in HR. Fitted, half the employees in this building have been made up. This office is a goddamn ghost town.

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#11

@Zombiewolf
Did you try cntl alt delete? If not maybe try calling corporate I know they have birthday giveaways every 6 months or so and on Easter. You could also ring around a rosie until your eukala arrives from door dash so you can watch carol baskins

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