11-26-2020, 06:25 PMTommySalami Wrote: I'm not a huge fan of these style of arguments the awards committee is making because inherently the player on the worse team is going to be more deserving of the award.
When it comes to the stat that is most fair to all goalie's situations (save percentage) Vilde is on top. If GAA and SO aren't being considered because they're team stats, why is the increased importance of Booth's role on the team being considered?
Vilde doesn't have the opportunity to make the team in front of him worse so he can truly show his value. That's just silly.
I absolutely agree!
First ever Yukon Malamute draft pick (1st overall S65)
11-26-2020, 07:00 PM(This post was last modified: 11-26-2020, 07:04 PM by Tate.)
I have been fortunate in my time in SIM leagues to have been nominated for awards, these two are my first in the SHL. Some of the nominations I felt I deserved to win, and others I thought I was just lucky to be in the conversation. When I look at my season, I believe I deserved to win just as much as Vilde did, and when the committee weighed the options and chose me as the winner I can tell you all that I felt immense pride and happiness. It's taken a lot of work to build the player that I have, and I've been battling year in and year out for Los Angeles the entire time, hoping that I would finally rise to this level. Reading the messages from people who don't believe I should have won the award is a downer, and while I can understand the debate, I just wish it wasn't about me. I respect why people believe Vilde should have won, but there have been few moments in my career where I was as happy as I was today. I wear this win with pride, and I will continue to do so. My only intention from here on out is to prove the doubters wrong.
Bring on the season, it's time to rock and roll baby.
11-26-2020, 07:00 PMTate Wrote: When I look at my season, I believe I deserved to win just as much as Vilde did, and when the committee weighed the options and chose me as the winner I can tell you all that I felt immense pride and happiness. It's taken a lot of work to build the player that I have, and I've been battling year in and year out for Los Angeles the entire time, hoping that I would finally rise to this level. Reading the messages from people who don't believe I should have won the award is a downer, and while I can understand the debate, I just wish it wasn't about me.
Congrats on the win! And don't sweat the posts here. There is usually some form of this debate after every awards show. I can respect making a case for a teammate but I wish it could be done in a way that doesn't also shit on your moment.
11-26-2020, 07:00 PMTate Wrote: I have been fortunate in my time in SIM leagues to have been nominated for awards, these two are my first in the SHL. Some of the nominations I felt I deserved to win, and others I thought I was just lucky to be in the conversation. When I look at my season, I believe I deserved to win just as much as Vilde did, and when the committee weighed the options and chose me as the winner I can tell you all that I felt immense pride and happiness. It's taken a lot of work to build the player that I have, and I've been battling year in and year out for Los Angeles the entire time, hoping that I would finally rise to this level. Reading the messages from people who don't believe I should have won the award is a downer, and while I can understand the debate, I just wish it wasn't about me. I respect why people believe Vilde should have won, but there have been few moments in my career where I was as happy as I was today. I wear this win with pride, and I will continue to do so. My only intention from here on out is to prove the doubters wrong.
Bring on the season, it's time to rock and roll baby.
I don't think anyone is saying you're undeserving or didn't have a great season. The issue is trying to figure out the rationale behind the decision.
A lot of the reasoning seems to surround the importance of the goalie compared to their team skill, but this is more of a defense for MVP and not best goalie. Additionally, I don't think you can simply dismiss big stats like GAA and wins. Save percentage is the biggest goalie stat and Vilde had the higher one (albeit a small margin).
Using a real life example, I think there was a goalie (on the Hawks, I can't remember) that won MVP on the worst team because they felt the team would have been even worse without his efforts and the comments keep making it sound like "well Vilde is on a better team soooo... take away Vilde and the Dragons are still good, etc..."
He wasn't the best goalie, but he was the MVP of the league.
Finally, to that guy's point about the shots, that could be a team philosophy difference, maybe the other team allows more shots, but they allow them from the outside or nondangerous areas. Without context (like save percentage on expected goals (or whatever the name of that stat is, essentially it's save percentage on dangerous shots) it doesn't mean a lot.
Both goalies are great and had tremendous seasons, but we want rationale and consistency for awards.
Best of luck going forward, you seem very committed and passionate and you'll only get better
11-26-2020, 08:10 PM(This post was last modified: 11-26-2020, 08:19 PM by DeletedAtUserRequest.)
11-26-2020, 07:46 PMslothfacekilla Wrote:
11-26-2020, 07:14 PMGood_Ole_Kimmy Wrote: I wish we could just ban threads complaining about awards committees not picking the author's friend
I mean Kimmy/Sloth.. there have been 1000 post award discussions about methadology.. this isnt anything new...listen Tates a great goalie, deserving of great accolades! he was simply awesome this year! i made sure in my OP i said just that... but i think this is a fair discussion topic because in the past those meat and potato stats which were vital in the award outcome were heavily considered and the advanced stats were used peripherally to determine a winner of 2 players close in statistics.. that doesnt seem to be the methadology here in this award as the meat and potato stats seemed to have become devalued without that being addressed in public. .. So if there's a new criteria now im hoping it would be discussed/clarified here in this post. (in a nice and respectful way please) so no ones scratching there heads in the future and we dont have to have this discussion for the next time around. ya know?
Kimmy... Kata is a friend, but im also his GM and id make a clarification post for any of my players...i would hope that your GM's now or in the future do the same for you if they felt an answer was helpful/needed.
If there is a advanced stats comparison available ... that would be helpful and maybe help move along this inquiry
I mean Kimmy/Sloth.. there have been 1000 post award discussions about methadology.. this isnt anything new...listen Tates a great goalie, deserving of great accolades! he was simply awesome this year! i made sure in my OP i said just that... but i think this is a fair discussion topic because in the past those meat and potato stats which were vital in the award outcome were heavily considered and the advanced stats were used peripherally to determine a winner of 2 players close in statistics.. that doesnt seem to be the methadology here in this award as the meat and potato stats seemed to have become devalued without that being addressed in public. .. So there's a new criteria which im hoping would be clarified here in this post. (in a nice and respectful way please) so maybe no ones scratching there heads in the future and we dont have to have this discussion for the next time around. ya know?
Kimmy... Kata is a friend, but im also his GM and id make a clarification post for any of my players...i would hope that your GM's now or in the future do the same for you if they felt an answer was helpful/needed.
If there is a advanced stats comparison available ... that would be helpful and maybe help move along this inquiry
I think a big issue that they're pointing out is like duff said. It simply takes the wind out of the winners sail. I'm not here to defend my player winning or if they were deserving of the award or not because there are a lot of great goalies who could have won this and it could have 100% went a different way. However, I think making a public post complaining about the methodology while also shitting all over the winner because you feel your own team's player performed better is unfair to the winner of the award. Simply go to the awards committee and ask them their methodology behind why they chose Booth over Vilde and see if they can provide stats instead of making a giant deal out of it on the forums where the winner can see and feel deflated because immediately after a win it's brought into question. I'm sure the awards committee would be more than happy to answer all of these questions had you PMed them.
11-26-2020, 08:28 PM(This post was last modified: 11-26-2020, 08:31 PM by DeletedAtUserRequest.)
11-26-2020, 08:18 PMTheDangaZone Wrote:
11-26-2020, 08:10 PMMike Izzy Wrote: I mean Kimmy/Sloth.. there have been 1000 post award discussions about methadology.. this isnt anything new...listen Tates a great goalie, deserving of great accolades! he was simply awesome this year! i made sure in my OP i said just that... but i think this is a fair discussion topic because in the past those meat and potato stats which were vital in the award outcome were heavily considered and the advanced stats were used peripherally to determine a winner of 2 players close in statistics.. that doesnt seem to be the methadology here in this award as the meat and potato stats seemed to have become devalued without that being addressed in public. .. So there's a new criteria which im hoping would be clarified here in this post. (in a nice and respectful way please) so maybe no ones scratching there heads in the future and we dont have to have this discussion for the next time around. ya know?
Kimmy... Kata is a friend, but im also his GM and id make a clarification post for any of my players...i would hope that your GM's now or in the future do the same for you if they felt an answer was helpful/needed.
If there is a advanced stats comparison available ... that would be helpful and maybe help move along this inquiry
I think a big issue that they're pointing out is like duff said. It simply takes the wind out of the winners sail. I'm not here to defend my player winning or if they were deserving of the award or not because there are a lot of great goalies who could have won this and it could have 100% went a different way. However, I think making a public post complaining about the methodology while also shitting all over the winner because you feel your own team's player performed better is unfair to the winner of the award. Simply go to the awards committee and ask them their methodology behind why they chose Booth over Vilde and see if they can provide stats instead of making a giant deal out of it on the forums where the winner can see and feel deflated because immediately after a win it's brought into question. I'm sure the awards committee would be more than happy to answer all of these questions had you PMed them.
Hi Danga, As a seperate piece away from the discussion topic.. if you feel the timing was bad then yeah i am sorry to you guys in LAP and Booth.. and perhaps i should have waited a week before posting this.. in the past weve had tons of immediate posts about award winners.. no ones ever had a real issue with the timing of those debate topics before.. and you get the most of out a discussion when its on peoples minds..but yeah for the next time i will definitley be more cognizant of the timing of these. My Bad.
But the topic and it's clarification is still something that should be addressed.
11-26-2020, 08:18 PMTheDangaZone Wrote: I think a big issue that they're pointing out is like duff said. It simply takes the wind out of the winners sail. I'm not here to defend my player winning or if they were deserving of the award or not because there are a lot of great goalies who could have won this and it could have 100% went a different way. However, I think making a public post complaining about the methodology while also shitting all over the winner because you feel your own team's player performed better is unfair to the winner of the award. Simply go to the awards committee and ask them their methodology behind why they chose Booth over Vilde and see if they can provide stats instead of making a giant deal out of it on the forums where the winner can see and feel deflated because immediately after a win it's brought into question. I'm sure the awards committee would be more than happy to answer all of these questions had you PMed them.
It needlessly happens all the time. If you're really just doing it to "find out for your player" then it doesn't have to be a thread.
I mean Kimmy/Sloth.. there have been 1000 post award discussions about methadology.. this isnt anything new...listen Tates a great goalie, deserving of great accolades! he was simply awesome this year! i made sure in my OP i said just that... but i think this is a fair discussion topic because in the past those meat and potato stats which were vital in the award outcome were heavily considered and the advanced stats were used peripherally to determine a winner of 2 players close in statistics.. that doesnt seem to be the methadology here in this award as the meat and potato stats seemed to have become devalued without that being addressed in public. .. So if there's a new criteria now im hoping it would be discussed/clarified here in this post. (in a nice and respectful way please) so no ones scratching there heads in the future and we dont have to have this discussion for the next time around. ya know?
Kimmy... Kata is a friend, but im also his GM and id make a clarification post for any of my players...i would hope that your GM's now or in the future do the same for you if they felt an answer was helpful/needed.
If there is a advanced stats comparison available ... that would be helpful and maybe help move along this inquiry
This I’m only asking for clarification act is as tiring as every other my friend didn’t win the award thread every season. You could DM the awards committee to discuss instead of raining on Booths parade, but here we are.
11-26-2020, 08:18 PMTheDangaZone Wrote: I think a big issue that they're pointing out is like duff said. It simply takes the wind out of the winners sail. I'm not here to defend my player winning or if they were deserving of the award or not because there are a lot of great goalies who could have won this and it could have 100% went a different way. However, I think making a public post complaining about the methodology while also shitting all over the winner because you feel your own team's player performed better is unfair to the winner of the award. Simply go to the awards committee and ask them their methodology behind why they chose Booth over Vilde and see if they can provide stats instead of making a giant deal out of it on the forums where the winner can see and feel deflated because immediately after a win it's brought into question. I'm sure the awards committee would be more than happy to answer all of these questions had you PMed them.
Hi Danga, As a seperate piece away from the discussion topic.. if you feel the timing was bad then yeah i am sorry to you guys in LAP and Booth.. and perhaps i should have waited a week before posting this.. in the past weve had tons of immediate posts about award winners.. no ones ever had a real issue with the timing of those debate topics before.. but yeah for the next time i will definitley be more cognizant of the timing of these. My Bad.
But the topic and it's clarification is still something that should be addressed.
I'm sure those threads also had issues iz. Not one winner on this site wants to login immediately after winning something to see another team going hard about why their guy should have won. End of the day it's the awards team's decision on what metrics they used and at no point in this thread did you tag anyone from the awards committee to actually get an answer. You instead looked to the site to backup your reasoning on why your guy should have won. All I'm saying is it could save a lot of hassle to everyone involved and also save someone who just won something from feeling like they didn't deserve it, if you actually went and talked to some people on the team to find out the information you wanted to know so badly.
11-26-2020, 08:32 PM(This post was last modified: 11-26-2020, 09:24 PM by DeletedAtUserRequest.)
11-26-2020, 08:30 PMslothfacekilla Wrote:
11-26-2020, 08:10 PMMike Izzy Wrote: I mean Kimmy/Sloth.. there have been 1000 post award discussions about methadology.. this isnt anything new...listen Tates a great goalie, deserving of great accolades! he was simply awesome this year! i made sure in my OP i said just that... but i think this is a fair discussion topic because in the past those meat and potato stats which were vital in the award outcome were heavily considered and the advanced stats were used peripherally to determine a winner of 2 players close in statistics.. that doesnt seem to be the methadology here in this award as the meat and potato stats seemed to have become devalued without that being addressed in public. .. So if there's a new criteria now im hoping it would be discussed/clarified here in this post. (in a nice and respectful way please) so no ones scratching there heads in the future and we dont have to have this discussion for the next time around. ya know?
Kimmy... Kata is a friend, but im also his GM and id make a clarification post for any of my players...i would hope that your GM's now or in the future do the same for you if they felt an answer was helpful/needed.
If there is a advanced stats comparison available ... that would be helpful and maybe help move along this inquiry
This I’m only asking for clarification act is as tiring as every other my friend didn’t win the award thread every season. You could DM the awards committee to discuss instead of raining on Booths parade, but here we are.
i hear ya... but i didnt.. i added it here. i apoligized for the timing.
11-26-2020, 09:28 PM(This post was last modified: 11-26-2020, 09:29 PM by Wally.)
What you all say are advanced stats are dumb as fuck. Period.
This is neither an argument for anyone over someone else. No one has advanced stats for any goaltender and if you think you do you don’t know a thing. This sim simply doesn’t provide them. Go ahead feeling special though.
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