09-25-2021, 01:20 PM(This post was last modified: 09-25-2021, 01:20 PM by PremierBromanov.)
Before we get started, i want to manage a couple of expectations regarding this media. While I think the tone strikes a fairly suggestive chord, this media is not meant as a suggestion post. There are quite a few logistical concerns that we're not going to give credence to. The question of any large scale change is always "revolution or evolution?". Thus, we're not concerned with whether or not we foist Slash upon the guillotine or gently nudge him into his new role as "media prompt guy" or whatever. I'm joking. We probably wont have to kill anyone for great change.
So what's the issue? What is so bad about PTs that we would abolish them and what would be the alternative? Simply put, there's not much wrong with PTs. I think maybe it would behoove us to see PTs for what they actually are: small scale media segregated from the rest of the media community. When you start to think of things this way, certain aspects of the PT system become questionable. Here are some of the questions we are interested in posing:
Why do we even have point tasks?
Why are they separated from other media?
Why are point tasks walled in?
What is the benefit of a PT system?
So first question: Why do we have PTs? Well, why do we do anything in the SHL?
We have tasks in the SHL to reward effort. When i say tasks, i dont mean strictly point tasks, i mean anything in this league that requires effort and time. Effort and time are the core of this league, as they are the core to any game or society. As humans, we want to have something to work on and we want to be rewarded for it. Simple concept. So the SHL, rather than being a no-effort pick-your-stats league, is a league that seeks to emulate that aspect of humanity that is so core to our being: Give me something to do and reward me for it. A meritocracy, if ever such a thing was possible.
So point tasks exist, in part, to give us something to work on. We are idle workers in the metaphorical RTS of the SHL. We need resources to gather. Left click select me and right click select the point task. "Ready to work!". Okay, so why not just give me something monotonous to do to earn my points? Why cant I do some human bitcoin mining bullshit? Well because the other aspect of PTs is to drive engagement. Not only do you work for points, but other people can, at their leisure, read your tasks. It drives conversation in locker rooms. It helps create the foundation of a league that exists in our minds. We are like Orks -- all latent psykers, and anything we believe together is made reality.
But there is another way users can work and earn points: media. Media is like the uncapped, unfiltered, lawless land of point tasks. One can create media about anything relating to the SHL (that link is tenuous at times) and be rewarded for the effort. There is no time limit, there is no reasonable topic that is off limits, and there is no content limit, excepting podcasts. One can write 10,000 words, record an hour podcast, or create some cool graphics at their leisure. And others -- seeking entertainment, community, and engagement -- will witness your content, will talk about it, will spread it to others. That is, like PTs, driving engagement and rewarding hard work.
The key difference between PTs and Media is the boundaries we put on PTs. And these boundaries are what I hope we can tear down, some day. The boundaries needlessly separate content, make it more difficult (however slight) to engage with that content. And really, this is an issue with how the website is put together: A series of folders like a computer. If I have to go down 2 folders to get to some media, then it is that much more difficult for me to go down 2 other folders in another direction. We've created a logic tree. Now, of course, the internet being what it is has made this relatively simple. One can open a tab of media, open a tab of the current PT, maybe open another for the mPT, and maybe also open a tab for junior media. "Whats so bad about that? Change is scary and I'll do things the difficult way instead"
Recognize that this UX design is not ideal. It's nearing the type of craziness you get from TV apps, where things are difficult to traverse and what you want is obscured. So without changing the entirety of the website to include helpful things like tags and filters, or some easier way to compile all media content into a single stream, this is sort of the best thing we've got. And that best thing is removing the PTs altogether and replacing them with a new reward system for media.
We've always said in this league that real life comes first. Who among us (amogus) has not missed a deadline through no fault of their own except prioritizing real life? Or went on vacation on the 36 hours that the mock draft task was available? Or signed a player after the deadline? I contend that a week for each task is too short.
Now let me stop you right there with your "but I can do it in a week" and general unsympathetic bullshit. I don't care.
Why does the weekly limit exist in the first place? To aid in our graders' work and to get a handle on how much TPE a person can earn in a given season, and to time gate earning. But, if we change the system of PTs to be seasonal and not weekly, then we allow a greater flexibility for the whole league. This flexibility serves the number one priority in the league: life comes first. Had a bad week? maybe two? No problem, you have 4 more before the season ends, try to put in work where you can, get 6 points this week, maybe 9 the next. Live your life the way you choose. TPE is still limited by season so we can monitor growth, and we don't need PT graders per se, we just need more media graders, graders who also benefit by not having strict deadlines
Now the time gating is very important, probably the biggest flaw in my proposed solution is complicating the gating. If we abolish PTs entirely and allow users to earn TPE by media up to a cap every season, we give huge benefits for those who can earn 20 TPE (15 PT + 5 mPT) immediately and apply that to their player. Well maybe not huge. When you look at the number, 20 doesnt equate to much in the grand scheme of things. It can help for playoff pushes and regular season success, but it's such a small amount of TPE with such a large system dedicated to it.
The other aspect of the time gating is making sure people log in more than once a season. The PTs lead us along over time, rather than giving us what we want instantly. That I can see as another flaw in my design.
So here's my solution:
All media earns TPE in addition to cash and each user is limited to earning 20 TPE per season this way. Player Tasks are removed entirely. The rate at which TPE is earned is based on the same rate of PTs:
50 words for 1 TPE
one graphic for 3 TPE
An hour of podcast for 5 (this can use some adjustment)
We can still have weekly prompts for media at the top of the media forum, to give users a little push if they need it, but the prompt isnt the only thing that gets graded. As aside, i find it hilarious that every PT says "write about this or dont get TPE". Like, why? You're not my dad. I'm gonna write 150 words about the SHL and that effort will be rewarded. What is this, some kind of flex?
In the same way, users can create media about whatever they want. Same rules apply as before. Word counts are calculated the same way, with words being dropped for poor writing or fluff (this is a rule I'm not in favor of, but that's another topic. A person is entitled to the sweat of their brow).
What this means is that user engagement should increase. We have a greater variety of media to read, see, and listen to, or to write, draw, or speak. And, all of that media is housed on one forum (or two, in the case of Junior media). A user can write 1000 words at the start of the season, they can write 150 every week if they want. They can create a lot of graphics, or space it out. There is greater connection of the content we create together and we don't have to have two departments run it.
Now my only concern is with how we calculate this effort and whether or not we pay money AND TPE to media this way. The current system requires 875 words every season for 20 TPE (or 5 graphics + 125 words), plus whatever jobs or media you have to earn yourself training money. One could argue that maybe things get a little too easy to allow users to get 20 TPE and $1,000,000 with 1,000 words, but honestly I don't see that extra $1,000,000 as a huge deal for the league.
So thats it then. Abolish PTs, remove the boundaries and walls surrounding the great content we create and put it all in one easy to find, easy to view forum and increase user engagement
I quit SBA because I hated this sort of model--it flooded media aimlessly with drivel. I think having the targeted topics of PTs are a good thing, even after factoring in whether or not prompts are good, creative, engaging. We can have a conversation on the topics, but I don't think changing the structural format of the league is a good idea. Honestly, I would probably wouldn't recreate if we made this switch.
Thank you karey, OrbitingDeath Ragnar, and sköldpaddor for sigs!
09-25-2021, 03:17 PM(This post was last modified: 09-25-2021, 03:21 PM by Ruggsy.)
Quote:We've always said in this league that real life comes first. Who among us (amogus) has not missed a deadline through no fault of their own except prioritizing real life? Or went on vacation on the 36 hours that the mock draft task was available? Or signed a player after the deadline? I contend that a week for each task is too short.
Now let me stop you right there with your "but I can do it in a week" and general unsympathetic bullshit. I don't care.
I understand this but, if you can't find the less than an hour needed to do the prompt in a week then....I also don't care. You missed a prompt so what. People who didn't miss get rewarded for that. I never really get the idea that everyone has to have an equal chance of being the best player ever. You missed a prompt, ok well do the next one and deal with being slightly worse. I miss prompts sometimes, sucks for me.
Quote:What this means is that user engagement should increase. We have a greater variety of media to read, see, and listen to, or to write, draw, or speak. And, all of that media is housed on one forum (or two, in the case of Junior media). A user can write 1000 words at the start of the season, they can write 150 every week if they want. They can create a lot of graphics, or space it out. There is greater connection of the content we create together and we don't have to have two departments run it.
Saying this will increase user involvement but I don't see how those things correlate. If someone can't be around for the hour needed at all during the week THAT sounds like being uninvolved in the league. If someone can just take care of their whole season in one media does that really foster involvement?
If there is a hard cap on how much TPE you can make for the season then why would anyone do anything extra after that point? Why would a new user come in and put out THOUSANDS of words worth of media other than to get a massive bank account for the start of their first season. As trips said I expect this to just end up with a ton of stat block media that I could inference from looking at the index myself, with me struggling to go through and find the graphics that I like to look at.
I think the true solution is increased rewards purchased with SHL money (which I know is coming with the cards and such but more is better) so there is reason for people to post good media and continue to stack their accounts.
aka I hate this, but still much love Bromanov for the idea at least lol
I can churn out 150 words or a graphic once a week, with an additional 25 words for the mPT. Like you said, sometimes I have bad weeks and can't get to it. Shit happens, this is a game. Working out a seasonal model might not be bad, but I've found that for my own experience and incentive, working with a weekly deadline is easier. I can kind of get behind the ISFL model of having one set of point tasks, but that's a different discussion.
Further, I hate writing media with a passion. If media was the main driver of TPE, I'd probably go inactive. You pointed out that it's uncapped and promptless, and that's exactly what I despise about it from a writing perspective. I have difficulties focusing on that sort of thing, and having a prompt at least helps. I don't always like them, but that's why I'm in multiple leagues or just skip a week.
Speaking of, how do Affiliate PTs work in this system? Is it still +3 TPE for completing a traditional PT in ISFL/PBE? What about media formats that would be considered invalid? How are discrepancies in earning accounted for?
I really don't like this idea. Part of what makes the SHL cool is being able to do a variety of tasks for TPE.
If you really want something like this, perhaps something similar to Deep Dives is where I'd start. Make it a minimum of 50 words for 1 TPE and a maximum of 8 TPE for at least 400 words, every week, and the participants may no longer submit PTs, mPTs, 3v3s, or Primetimes in a week in which they've done their big writeups.
09-25-2021, 03:17 PMRuggsy Wrote: I understand this but, if you can't find the less than an hour needed to do the prompt in a week then....I also don't care. You missed a prompt so what. People who didn't miss get rewarded for that. I never really get the idea that everyone has to have an equal chance of being the best player ever. You missed a prompt, ok well do the next one and deal with being slightly worse. I miss prompts sometimes, sucks for me.
Look at this guy he thinks he's so special because he doesn't need 3 hours for his PT
Quote:What this means is that user engagement should increase. We have a greater variety of media to read, see, and listen to, or to write, draw, or speak. And, all of that media is housed on one forum (or two, in the case of Junior media). A user can write 1000 words at the start of the season, they can write 150 every week if they want. They can create a lot of graphics, or space it out. There is greater connection of the content we create together and we don't have to have two departments run it.
Saying this will increase user involvement but I don't see how those things correlate. If someone can't be around for the hour needed at all during the week THAT sounds like being uninvolved in the league. If someone can just take care of their whole season in one media does that really foster involvement?
If there is a hard cap on how much TPE you can make for the season then why would anyone do anything extra after that point? Why would a new user come in and put out THOUSANDS of words worth of media other than to get a massive bank account for the start of their first season. As trips said I expect this to just end up with a ton of stat block media that I could inference from looking at the index myself, with me struggling to go through and find the graphics that I like to look at.
I think the true solution is increased rewards purchased with SHL money (which I know is coming with the cards and such but more is better) so there is reason for people to post good media and continue to stack their accounts.
aka I hate this, but still much love Bromanov for the idea at least lol
I somewhat agree and disagree with where you're going with this, if I understand it correctly. I agree that if someone can't log on once a week for an hour at most, then chances are changing things up won't result in more activity from that same user. I also agree that this would disincentivize people from writing media, but where I come to disagree is that we already have mostly just stat block media that doesn't result in much. Media already feels very forced to put out, and this results in more works intended to hit word counts instead of things with heart and soul that people enjoy making. When I discuss media and pay from it with people it's often agreed that media does not pay well at all for the effort required. While more things that require money can be an overall plus for activity, I worry that it will result in yet more unenthusiastic media unless pay scales arepotentially increased
09-25-2021, 03:29 PMACapitalChicago Wrote: I somewhat agree and disagree with where you're going with this, if I understand it correctly. I agree that if someone can't log on once a week for an hour at most, then chances are changing things up won't result in more activity from that same user. I also agree that this would disincentivize people from writing media, but where I come to disagree is that we already have mostly just stat block media that doesn't result in much. Media already feels very forced to put out, and this results in more works intended to hit word counts instead of things with heart and soul that people enjoy making. When I discuss media and pay from it with people it's often agreed that media does not pay well at all for the effort required. While more things that require money can be an overall plus for activity, I worry that it will result in yet more unenthusiastic media unless pay scales arepotentially increased
yea I don't disagree with media already feeling forced, but I just thought that this would make it even worse. At least now you look through 10 medias and find some good ones. If I had to look through 100 medias....I just wont look in the first place
09-25-2021, 01:52 PMhhh81 Wrote: I quit SBA because I hated this sort of model--it flooded media aimlessly with drivel. I think having the targeted topics of PTs are a good thing, even after factoring in whether or not prompts are good, creative, engaging. We can have a conversation on the topics, but I don't think changing the structural format of the league is a good idea. Honestly, I would probably wouldn't recreate if we made this switch.
09-25-2021, 01:52 PMhhh81 Wrote: I quit SBA because I hated this sort of model--it flooded media aimlessly with drivel. I think having the targeted topics of PTs are a good thing, even after factoring in whether or not prompts are good, creative, engaging. We can have a conversation on the topics, but I don't think changing the structural format of the league is a good idea. Honestly, I would probably wouldn't recreate if we made this switch.
09-25-2021, 04:50 PM(This post was last modified: 09-25-2021, 04:52 PM by Lime.)
Good post, bad idea.
The two major flaws are kind of a big deal and glossed over. Also everything being worth TPE and money or just money? But also TPE sometimes? Is a really awkward system.
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