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***brickwall35*** · 12-03-2021, 03:11 PM

12-03-2021, 02:47 PMluketd Wrote:
12-03-2021, 02:46 PMbrickwall35 Wrote: Yeah that number is definitely not accurate lol

Can you count the people in this thread for me?

I can count the more than 12 people you mentioned that I've seen upset with this decision on Discord. And you choose a shitty way to gauge this considering the majority of posts here are just people meme'ing.

***brickwall35*** · 12-03-2021, 03:12 PM

12-03-2021, 02:48 PMsköldpaddor Wrote:
12-03-2021, 02:46 PMbrickwall35 Wrote: Yeah that number is definitely not accurate lol

I'd like to thank brickwall personally here for bumping this to another page because people have no consideration for mobile users when they choose their copypasta.

I did it twice now lmao

***WannabeFinn*** · 12-03-2021, 03:13 PM

I do not like this particular solution and how it’s being implemented, but it has been obvious to most that our previous regression scale was untenable long term.

I think there are more “fair” alternatives to this, but it’s hard to deny the impact that this particular implementation will have. It’s important to shorten the IRL time commitment to a single player’s career and the team building process.

Peak TPE is relative. If you’re a top dog now, you’re probably still going to be a top dog as we enter 2022. Your peak TPE total is meaningless outside the context of the update scale.

Lots of understandable emotions bubbling to the surface here. I hurt for those who feel targeted, neglected, robbed, and a general sense of unimportance.

10, 15, 20 seasons from now the league will look back on this change and probably be thankful for it. It’s a good move from the grand strategy perspective. But these moves aren’t made in a vacuum, the payoff is not immediate, and emotions can’t be turned off.

It’s gonna suck for a little while.

Sean · 12-03-2021, 03:13 PM

12-03-2021, 09:37 AMleviadan Wrote: I guess what confuses me the most is why regression needs to start earlier at all? Why not just stick with the change to the steepness of the curve or make the curve a little steeper than what's described in your post?

Losing 12 then 15 for 3 seasons is already 22% more TPE than I expected to be losing over my first 4 seasons of regression but it's a lot easier to stomach and feels like much less of a destruction of two years of work than an immediate and direct 20% kneecap.

Doesn't doing that also accomplish the same goal? I guess I just don't fully see why some inflation is so bad as long as the fall off is quicker. I think we can all agree four seasons of 10% was insane, but this seems like a massive over correction that devastates people's effort and engagement with the league.

I think it's been fairly clear a goal of ours has been to improve parity. We have done so with our build change which made it easier for lower-TPE players to be good.

When we were an STHS league, the scale of the league was effectively 800 - 1500. Yeah, you could go above 1500 TPE but the attributes you were improving had extremely little affect on your performance. Once you hit 1200 TPE in STHS, in the right situation you could be a star player

In FHM, you can increase valuable attributes well above any conceivable amount of TPE you can earn. Players who actively participated in the league at above 2000 TPE are getting full advantage of that 2000 TPE. That creates further disparity in the league so we wanted to bring the max TPE in the league down so there's less difference between a rookie and a max-earner. This is what moving regression up one season accomplishes.

S53s are feeling this the hardest because they are getting hit with the leveling out of the field and their first regression all at once but this isn't an "unfair" situation to S53s as we've accounted for the earning potential of earlier classes and added on to their regression as needed and all future classes will regress a season earlier lowering their earning potential.

EDM All-Time Leader in Goals, Assists and Points

Sean · 12-03-2021, 03:17 PM

12-03-2021, 03:00 PMSymmetrik Wrote:
12-03-2021, 02:56 PMTommySalami Wrote: I'm confused by what you want me to provide. We spent a very long time discussing various different ways to implement new regression. We ran a lot of different scenarios and their affect on the league. Do you want me to just dump a bunch of spreadsheets that won't mean much without the commentary that went behind it? It's not like I have a research paper I can provide you.

I like spreadsheets and while I personally don't need to see the data as a former HO member in the PBE I know for people being able to see data is important and I would have advised putting it in the OP.

Someone earlier posted a spreadsheet with like a breakdown of how TPE numbers compare now and I think something like that is probably all that was needed in order for some to understand why you chose this route.

I believe we're making a general response post this evening. I'll look to include more of that in that post so it isn't buried in here.

EDM All-Time Leader in Goals, Assists and Points

BarnabasCollins · 12-03-2021, 03:20 PM

12-03-2021, 11:48 AMInf1d3l Wrote:
12-03-2021, 11:43 AMCampinKiller Wrote: I see we’ve reached the stage where everyone starts repeating themselves

I'm looking for the recipe post

Even though I will probably never make another player, I will be the hero you require!

Guinness Beef Stew

Ingredients

4 slices bacon, cut into small pieces
2 ½ pounds boneless beef chuck, cut into 2-inch pieces
1 teaspoon salt, or more to taste
freshly ground black pepper to taste
2 onions, coarsely chopped
½ teaspoon salt
4 cloves garlic, minced
1 (14.9 ounce) can dark beer (such as Guinness®)
¼ cup tomato paste
4 sprigs fresh thyme
3 carrots, cut into 1-inch pieces
2 stalks celery, cut into 1-inch pieces
1 teaspoon white sugar
½ teaspoon freshly ground black pepper, or to taste
2 ½ cups chicken stock, or as needed to cover
4 cups mashed potatoes (Optional) or 3 large potatoes chopped up

Directions

Step 1

Cook and stir bacon in a heavy skillet over medium-high heat until bacon is browned and crisp, 3 to 4 minutes. Turn off heat and transfer bacon into a large stew pot, reserving bacon fat in the skillet.

Step 2

Season beef chuck cubes generously with 1 teaspoon salt and black pepper to taste. Turn heat to high under skillet and sear beef pieces in the hot fat on both sides until browned, about 5 minutes. Place beef in stew pot with bacon, leaving fat in skillet. Turn heat down to medium; cook and stir onions in the retained fat in the skillet until lightly browned, 5 to 8 minutes; season with a large pinch of salt.

Step 3

Cook garlic with onions until soft, about 1 minute; pour beer into skillet and stir with a wooden spoon, scraping up and dissolving any browned bits of food into the liquid. Pour cooking liquid from skillet into the stew pot. Stir in tomato paste, thyme sprigs, carrots, celery, sugar, 1/2 teaspoon black pepper, and enough chicken broth to cover.

Step 4

Bring stew to a gentle simmer, stirring to combine; reduce heat to low and cover pot. Simmer stew until beef is fork-tender, about 2 hours. Stir stew occasionally and skim fat or foam if desired.

Step 5

Remove cover and raise heat to medium-high. Bring stew to a low boil and cook until stew has slightly thickened, 15 to 20 minutes. Remove and discard thyme sprigs and adjust salt and pepper to taste.

Step 6

Arrange mashed potatoes in a ring in a serving bowl; ladle stew into the center of the potatoes. (I actually added potatoes to the stew)

[Image: 001.JPG]

ACapitalChicago · 12-03-2021, 03:23 PM

12-03-2021, 03:20 PMBarnabasCollins Wrote:
12-03-2021, 11:48 AMInf1d3l Wrote: I'm looking for the recipe post

Even though I will probably never make another player, I will be the hero you require!

Guinness Beef Stew

Ingredients

4 slices bacon, cut into small pieces
2 ½ pounds boneless beef chuck, cut into 2-inch pieces
1 teaspoon salt, or more to taste
freshly ground black pepper to taste
2 onions, coarsely chopped
½ teaspoon salt
4 cloves garlic, minced
1 (14.9 ounce) can dark beer (such as Guinness®)
¼ cup tomato paste
4 sprigs fresh thyme
3 carrots, cut into 1-inch pieces
2 stalks celery, cut into 1-inch pieces
1 teaspoon white sugar
½ teaspoon freshly ground black pepper, or to taste
2 ½ cups chicken stock, or as needed to cover
4 cups mashed potatoes (Optional) or 3 large potatoes chopped up

Directions

Step 1

Cook and stir bacon in a heavy skillet over medium-high heat until bacon is browned and crisp, 3 to 4 minutes. Turn off heat and transfer bacon into a large stew pot, reserving bacon fat in the skillet.

Step 2

Season beef chuck cubes generously with 1 teaspoon salt and black pepper to taste. Turn heat to high under skillet and sear beef pieces in the hot fat on both sides until browned, about 5 minutes. Place beef in stew pot with bacon, leaving fat in skillet. Turn heat down to medium; cook and stir onions in the retained fat in the skillet until lightly browned, 5 to 8 minutes; season with a large pinch of salt.

Step 3

Cook garlic with onions until soft, about 1 minute; pour beer into skillet and stir with a wooden spoon, scraping up and dissolving any browned bits of food into the liquid. Pour cooking liquid from skillet into the stew pot. Stir in tomato paste, thyme sprigs, carrots, celery, sugar, 1/2 teaspoon black pepper, and enough chicken broth to cover.

Step 4

Bring stew to a gentle simmer, stirring to combine; reduce heat to low and cover pot. Simmer stew until beef is fork-tender, about 2 hours. Stir stew occasionally and skim fat or foam if desired.

Step 5

Remove cover and raise heat to medium-high. Bring stew to a low boil and cook until stew has slightly thickened, 15 to 20 minutes. Remove and discard thyme sprigs and adjust salt and pepper to taste.

Step 6

Arrange mashed potatoes in a ring in a serving bowl; ladle stew into the center of the potatoes. (I actually added potatoes to the stew)

GOAT

S66 Damian Littleton

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Evok · 12-03-2021, 03:25 PM

12-03-2021, 02:56 PMTommySalami Wrote:
12-03-2021, 12:52 PMEvok Wrote: HO admitting they made a mistake would be a first lmao. I'm still waiting for @"TommySalami" amazing research results, probably not biased at all, to see why this was needed to be implemented that way

I'm confused by what you want me to provide. We spent a very long time discussing various different ways to implement new regression. We ran a lot of different scenarios and their affect on the league. Do you want me to just dump a bunch of spreadsheets that won't mean much without the commentary that went behind it? It's not like I have a research paper I can provide you.

Sym pretty much explained it, if you want to say "we did research as to why this is the best solution and why we implement it now" be ready people ask for it. Transparancy of decision and providing information to the players affected goes a long way to calm down people when you are able to prove it IS the most logical thing. The most info you can provide on a topic is always better so its advisable to make a doccument next time theres a big topic like this, im not going to lie. Right now we just see the result without explanations and we only have "trust us" to go with it which doesnt really fly.

DELIRIVM · 12-03-2021, 03:29 PM

12-03-2021, 03:13 PMTommySalami Wrote:
12-03-2021, 09:37 AMleviadan Wrote: I guess what confuses me the most is why regression needs to start earlier at all? Why not just stick with the change to the steepness of the curve or make the curve a little steeper than what's described in your post?

Losing 12 then 15 for 3 seasons is already 22% more TPE than I expected to be losing over my first 4 seasons of regression but it's a lot easier to stomach and feels like much less of a destruction of two years of work than an immediate and direct 20% kneecap.

Doesn't doing that also accomplish the same goal? I guess I just don't fully see why some inflation is so bad as long as the fall off is quicker. I think we can all agree four seasons of 10% was insane, but this seems like a massive over correction that devastates people's effort and engagement with the league.

I think it's been fairly clear a goal of ours has been to improve parity. We have done so with our build change which made it easier for lower-TPE players to be good.

When we were an STHS league, the scale of the league was effectively 800 - 1500. Yeah, you could go above 1500 TPE but the attributes you were improving had extremely little affect on your performance. Once you hit 1200 TPE in STHS, in the right situation you could be a star player

In FHM, you can increase valuable attributes well above any conceivable amount of TPE you can earn. Players who actively participated in the league at above 2000 TPE are getting full advantage of that 2000 TPE. That creates further disparity in the league so we wanted to bring the max TPE in the league down so there's less difference between a rookie and a max-earner. This is what moving regression up one season accomplishes.

S53s are feeling this the hardest because they are getting hit with the leveling out of the field and their first regression all at once but this isn't an "unfair" situation to S53s as we've accounted for the earning potential of earlier classes and added on to their regression as needed and all future classes will regress a season earlier lowering their earning potential.

I just think a lot of people will see this as just a very minor problem with parity. At this point the issue with parity springs from more than just how long players can maintain their TPE levels. I'd say that test simming, the ability to game FHM (as it's been completely figured out at this point), free agency and players wanting to return to teams with their friends, and other extremely nuanced social circumstances that impact parity, are the real culprits. Real sports leagues don't have to deal with allegiances like we do in the SHL. One user can have 4 players that all play on the same team because that is where they are happy and want to stay. That's a big issue with parity and one that's nigh unsolvable. All this means is people that retire are going to recreate and sign in FA where they want to be anyway. We'll just see more turnover quicker. Much like the HTT hit on last night. All this does is speed things up. Doesn't necessarily fix much.

We're likely to see a tiny impact from this decision but it does nothing to really to combat the issue of parity. I, of course, could be wrong. But to fully understanding reasoning behind basically deleting S53 and S54s peak seasons, I think a lot of people would like to see a detailed post with the research and context you spoke about earlier. Because we all would love to see more parity and chance for teams to win. But there is so much more behind parity than just how long someone can continue sustaining their TPE. Parity is always going to be an issue no matter what steps HO takes.

***CampinKiller*** · 12-03-2021, 03:38 PM

12-03-2021, 03:01 PMZombiewolf Wrote:
12-03-2021, 02:48 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: I'd like to thank brickwall personally here for bumping this to another page because people have no consideration for mobile users when they choose their copypasta.

LIFE

Personal foul, targeting a defenseless player

Jobin · 12-03-2021, 03:42 PM

12-03-2021, 02:46 PMCampinKiller Wrote:
12-03-2021, 01:28 PMBfine Wrote: Oh no its Ruutu bait too? I retire

book it, he loses 10% if he unretires

There’s the cheat.
Step 1) Retire
Step 2) Wait until regression deadline passes
Step 3) Unretire and only lose 10%

Foolproof

PremierBromanov · 12-03-2021, 03:48 PM

12-03-2021, 03:42 PMJobin Wrote:
12-03-2021, 02:46 PMCampinKiller Wrote: book it, he loses 10% if he unretires
There’s the cheat.
Step 1) Retire
Step 2) Wait until regression deadline passes
Step 3) Unretire and only lose 10%

Foolproof

by jove....

st4rface · 12-03-2021, 03:51 PM

Still worst update in this league I've ever witnessed after one day of thinking.

***By-Tor*** · 12-03-2021, 03:58 PM

12-03-2021, 03:20 PMBarnabasCollins Wrote:
12-03-2021, 11:48 AMInf1d3l Wrote: I'm looking for the recipe post

Even though I will probably never make another player, I will be the hero you require!

Guinness Beef Stew

Ingredients

4 slices bacon, cut into small pieces
2 ½ pounds boneless beef chuck, cut into 2-inch pieces
1 teaspoon salt, or more to taste
freshly ground black pepper to taste
2 onions, coarsely chopped
½ teaspoon salt
4 cloves garlic, minced
1 (14.9 ounce) can dark beer (such as Guinness®)
¼ cup tomato paste
4 sprigs fresh thyme
3 carrots, cut into 1-inch pieces
2 stalks celery, cut into 1-inch pieces
1 teaspoon white sugar
½ teaspoon freshly ground black pepper, or to taste
2 ½ cups chicken stock, or as needed to cover
4 cups mashed potatoes (Optional) or 3 large potatoes chopped up

Directions

Step 1

Cook and stir bacon in a heavy skillet over medium-high heat until bacon is browned and crisp, 3 to 4 minutes. Turn off heat and transfer bacon into a large stew pot, reserving bacon fat in the skillet.

Step 2

Season beef chuck cubes generously with 1 teaspoon salt and black pepper to taste. Turn heat to high under skillet and sear beef pieces in the hot fat on both sides until browned, about 5 minutes. Place beef in stew pot with bacon, leaving fat in skillet. Turn heat down to medium; cook and stir onions in the retained fat in the skillet until lightly browned, 5 to 8 minutes; season with a large pinch of salt.

Step 3

Cook garlic with onions until soft, about 1 minute; pour beer into skillet and stir with a wooden spoon, scraping up and dissolving any browned bits of food into the liquid. Pour cooking liquid from skillet into the stew pot. Stir in tomato paste, thyme sprigs, carrots, celery, sugar, 1/2 teaspoon black pepper, and enough chicken broth to cover.

Step 4

Bring stew to a gentle simmer, stirring to combine; reduce heat to low and cover pot. Simmer stew until beef is fork-tender, about 2 hours. Stir stew occasionally and skim fat or foam if desired.

Step 5

Remove cover and raise heat to medium-high. Bring stew to a low boil and cook until stew has slightly thickened, 15 to 20 minutes. Remove and discard thyme sprigs and adjust salt and pepper to taste.

Step 6

Arrange mashed potatoes in a ring in a serving bowl; ladle stew into the center of the potatoes. (I actually added potatoes to the stew)

Missed opportunity to include salami in the recipe

Credit to enigmatic, Merica, and tweedledunn for sigs

Ruggsy · 12-03-2021, 04:07 PM

12-03-2021, 03:58 PMBy-Tor Wrote:
12-03-2021, 03:20 PMBarnabasCollins Wrote: Even though I will probably never make another player, I will be the hero you require!

Guinness Beef Stew

Ingredients

4 slices bacon, cut into small pieces
2 ½ pounds boneless beef chuck, cut into 2-inch pieces
1 teaspoon salt, or more to taste
freshly ground black pepper to taste
2 onions, coarsely chopped
½ teaspoon salt
4 cloves garlic, minced
1 (14.9 ounce) can dark beer (such as Guinness®)
¼ cup tomato paste
4 sprigs fresh thyme
3 carrots, cut into 1-inch pieces
2 stalks celery, cut into 1-inch pieces
1 teaspoon white sugar
½ teaspoon freshly ground black pepper, or to taste
2 ½ cups chicken stock, or as needed to cover
4 cups mashed potatoes (Optional) or 3 large potatoes chopped up

Directions

Step 1

Cook and stir bacon in a heavy skillet over medium-high heat until bacon is browned and crisp, 3 to 4 minutes. Turn off heat and transfer bacon into a large stew pot, reserving bacon fat in the skillet.

Step 2

Season beef chuck cubes generously with 1 teaspoon salt and black pepper to taste. Turn heat to high under skillet and sear beef pieces in the hot fat on both sides until browned, about 5 minutes. Place beef in stew pot with bacon, leaving fat in skillet. Turn heat down to medium; cook and stir onions in the retained fat in the skillet until lightly browned, 5 to 8 minutes; season with a large pinch of salt.

Step 3

Cook garlic with onions until soft, about 1 minute; pour beer into skillet and stir with a wooden spoon, scraping up and dissolving any browned bits of food into the liquid. Pour cooking liquid from skillet into the stew pot. Stir in tomato paste, thyme sprigs, carrots, celery, sugar, 1/2 teaspoon black pepper, and enough chicken broth to cover.

Step 4

Bring stew to a gentle simmer, stirring to combine; reduce heat to low and cover pot. Simmer stew until beef is fork-tender, about 2 hours. Stir stew occasionally and skim fat or foam if desired.

Step 5

Remove cover and raise heat to medium-high. Bring stew to a low boil and cook until stew has slightly thickened, 15 to 20 minutes. Remove and discard thyme sprigs and adjust salt and pepper to taste.

Step 6

Arrange mashed potatoes in a ring in a serving bowl; ladle stew into the center of the potatoes. (I actually added potatoes to the stew)

Missed opportunity to include salami in the recipe

Salami stew sounds positively terrible

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