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SMJHL S65 & S66 Free Agency Waiver Change Announcement
#16
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2022, 08:19 PM by RomanesEuntDomus. Edited 1 time in total.)

05-10-2022, 07:56 PMsköldpaddor Wrote:
05-10-2022, 07:35 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Not a fan of Free Agency Waivers in sim leagues. Maybe this change is inevitable because people were abusing the old system too much, but in my experience being able to choose your first team and having the chance to play with either the person who recruited you or someone who was super helpful to you early on is a very positive factor to someones experience early on. It gives players agency, helps with retention, gives people in juniors an incentive to recruit and rewards the teams that put effort into being a desirable destination. It's one of the few issues where I think parity should actually have to take a step back because other things about the experience are more important. I'd rather see a more targeted solution aimed at the people who look to circumvent the draft, and not a broad measure like this one with so much collateral damage.

Right, so - I agree that it's unfortunate that people can't necessarily just go to whatever team they want willy nilly (although to some degree they can still control it - people can still wait until their desired team is up in waivers order, and if it's a significant enough personal connection, the rest of us J gms are not going to claim somebody's significant other or extremely close friend etc. if we're told it's very important to them, within reason). HOWEVER, the free agency system was, in my opinion, creating an imbalance to the point that our other systems were kind of just nerfed. When a team can just pick up 3-4 free agents post-draft, draft position, draft picks, begin to lose their value. A team could just trade all of their draft picks to go into "win now" mode and then easily sign enough free agents for it to not even matter. Do you know how discouraging that is for a team that's working through a rebuild? It was very much a system where the good teams just stayed good and it was harder for teams further down the ladder to climb their way back up.

It is really unfortunate that it takes away some player agency, but the agency of players who are open to going to other teams, who ultimately get screwed over by the same teams being good over and over again and staying there because we had an uneven distribution of new talent, those people's experience is important too, and we have to be mindful of that. We don't want people to end up miserable in their whole J career because none of their teammates knew enough casual buddies to recruit to all sign with the same team, we don't want GMs to burn out because they pour themselves into a team for season after season, managing the assets they have as best as they can just to get burned over and over again by other teams getting multiple players free per season.

You make some good points, so thank you for that. But have you guys tried to actually quantify the problem though, like, how many recreates circumvented the draft over the last few seasons, how many FAs did the various teams manage to sign in a given season etc? Because from my very subjective and incomplete perspective it seems like a problem that really isn't big enough to warrant such grave measures. It would be nice to see some numbers to determine whether that intuition is right or not.

Evan Winter
Edmonton Blizzard
Player Page - Update Page


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#17

05-10-2022, 08:12 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
05-10-2022, 07:56 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: Right, so - I agree that it's unfortunate that people can't necessarily just go to whatever team they want willy nilly (although to some degree they can still control it - people can still wait until their desired team is up in waivers order, and if it's a significant enough personal connection, the rest of us J gms are not going to claim somebody's significant other or extremely close friend etc. if we're told it's very important to them, within reason). HOWEVER, the free agency system was, in my opinion, creating an imbalance to the point that our other systems were kind of just nerfed. When a team can just pick up 3-4 free agents post-draft, draft position, draft picks, begin to lose their value. A team could just trade all of their draft picks to go into "win now" mode and then easily sign enough free agents for it to not even matter. Do you know how discouraging that is for a team that's working through a rebuild? It was very much a system where the good teams just stayed good and it was harder for teams further down the ladder to climb their way back up.

It is really unfortunate that it takes away some player agency, but the agency of players who are open to going to other teams, who ultimately get screwed over by the same teams being good over and over again and staying there because we had an uneven distribution of new talent, those people's experience is important too, and we have to be mindful of that. We don't want people to end up miserable in their whole J career because none of their teammates knew enough casual buddies to recruit to all sign with the same team, we don't want GMs to burn out because they pour themselves into a team for season after season, managing the assets they have as best as they can just to get burned over and over again by other teams getting multiple players free per season.

You make some good points, so thank you for that! Have guys tried to actually quantify the problem the problem though, like, how many recreates circumvented the draft over the last few seasons, how many FAs did the various teams manage to sign in a given season etc. Because from my very subjective and incomplete perspective it seems like a problem that might exist somewhat, but isn't bad enough to warrant such grave measures. It would be nice to see some numbers to determine whether that intuition is right or not.

We've examined the numbers in HO, and they weren't trending in positive ways. Teams were able to sign disproportionate amounts of FAs comparatively to the rest, and it was only trending in more disproportionate ways as we went by seasons. While we could have a discussion on whether or not the numbers justified such a change again within HO at the end of the day our GMs brought up many good points that justified at least a temporary change in systems. This has been an ongoing conversation for multiple consecutive seasons, and like the main post says, should we feel it is overbearing or causing a negligible amount of gain then we can re-examine this at the end of our trial period

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S66 Damian Littleton


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#18

05-10-2022, 06:04 PMMerica Wrote:
05-10-2022, 06:00 PMSamsung virtual assistant Wrote: Me no like eh :(
Would you say it’s an…eh change?

tru

i'd just not update if i was claimed by a team i was forced onto in FA tbh /shrug

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#19

05-11-2022, 05:42 PMSamsung virtual assistant Wrote:
05-10-2022, 06:04 PMMerica Wrote: Would you say it’s an…eh change?

tru

i'd just not update if i was claimed by a team i was forced onto in FA tbh /shrug
If you're so deadset on playing for a single team, express that to GMs. GMs likewise don't want to force a player onto their team who doesn't want to be there.

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#20

05-10-2022, 04:54 PMlespoils Wrote:
05-10-2022, 04:31 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: this is something that's needed changing for a loooong time and I'm grateful it has been addressed <3

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05-10-2022, 04:51 PMChevy Wrote: Since they're active, I still think it should be a 2+2 instead of a 1+2 contract... but that's just me.

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Does this mean I have to re-create?

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#21

05-11-2022, 09:48 PMbrickwall35 Wrote:
05-11-2022, 05:42 PMSamsung virtual assistant Wrote: tru

i'd just not update if i was claimed by a team i was forced onto in FA tbh /shrug
If you're so deadset on playing for a single team, express that to GMs. GMs likewise don't want to force a player onto their team who doesn't want to be there.

Eeh not a single team, there are some teams i definitely wouldn't want to play for though lmao. But yeah ofc i would tell them Biggrin

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#22
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2022, 06:48 AM by RomanesEuntDomus. Edited 3 times in total.)

05-11-2022, 09:48 PMbrickwall35 Wrote:
05-11-2022, 05:42 PMSamsung virtual assistant Wrote: tru

i'd just not update if i was claimed by a team i was forced onto in FA tbh /shrug
If you're so deadset on playing for a single team, express that to GMs. GMs likewise don't want to force a player onto their team who doesn't want to be there.

Isn't that exactly what the people who were already trying to game the system by recreating after the draft are gonna do then, tell people that they are only interested in playing for team x and expecting GMs to respect those wishes? In order for that to not be effective you would need GMs to do the exact opposite of what you describe, claim a player that doesn't want to play for them to hold them accountable and make the system work as intended, sacrificing their own waiver position and having to pray that it works out somehow. If we don't have teams taking a bullet for the sake of the league like that from time to time (which I'm not sure they'll be interested to do), the draft-dodgers will just end up going to the team they were planning to go to anyway even if they are like 12th in the Waiver order. And what stops people from just waiting to create their player until their favorite team has moved up far enough in Waiver order? And are there rules to prevent people from just insta-retiring and recreating when they get picked up on Waivers by a team they don't like?

Let's be honest about what this is: The purpose of a Waiver system is NOT to allow people to go to where they want to go, it's to artificially re-distribute them among the league for the sakes of balance, so in order for this to be effective you need players to be claimed by teams that they normally wouldn't have wanted to go to, otherwise the whole system is pointless and ineffective in the first place. If you want a Waiver system to work, you need GMs to ignore players wishes at least to a certain degree, while those players lose most of their say in the process.

I still think there would have been ways to deal with the problem of post-draft recreation that didn't negatively impact everyone else's experience so much, and those people will probably still find ways to game the new system as well. And it's just such a big difference for someone who is completely new to this league to be able to actively pick their team and the people they play with, compared to just more or less randomly being assigned to some squad no matter where they are in the Standings, what their roster situation is or who they know on the teams. That used to always be the deal in this league, you are either subjected to this kind of randomness but are rewarded for it with the Draft-experience and some extra TPE compared to those who come later, or you miss those things because you happened to find us too late, but at least can freely choose your team to make up for that. I could see us having some real trouble retaining late sign-ups if we just randomly throw them on teams without them having much of a say, all the while the people who have been looking to exploit the system (not that I think they are that many, I've still got to see any numbers presented) will find new ways to circumvent those rules.

Evan Winter
Edmonton Blizzard
Player Page - Update Page


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#23

There are still plenty of players that don’t have a preference for a team, especially new recruits.
I think this waiver system is good to spread out players over the teams.



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