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PremierBromanov · 05-25-2022, 01:43 PM

05-25-2022, 01:26 PMbrickwall35 Wrote:
05-25-2022, 01:14 PMPremierBromanov Wrote: I'm not able to read through this entire thing right now, so I apologize If Im re-treading ground or being slightly obtuse because of it. But, i wanted to share my short-lived experience and perspective with being a GM (and somewhat longer with being a Fed Head).

I see a lot of GMs complain about time, namely not having enough. And please note, when i say complain I mean it only as the literal meaning of it. I'm not trying to paint a picture of whiney GMs. But, Time. I think they have it backwards and I think that's a compounding factor with FHM and Parity/HAM.

I don't think it's any secret that I want the season way shorter. Like, way way shorter. Like, 4 weeks front to back. Blam, new season. What I want coupled with that time "crunch" is a lack of possibility to spend all that time. Because the reason GMs want more time to test, more time to scout, more time for trades is because the implication of any given move as a GM is potential YEARS of your life. The players know this too. They know that when they sign a contract, it's sometimes for the next 3 seasons, which could be anywhere from 18 weeks to 24 weeks. Half the year. They know that to spend their career with a team is to have the next 2 years on the line (or more). They know that when you draft someone, when you trade for someone, it has far reaching implications.

All this to say, every single move you make MATTERS. A LOT. It matters too much, i think. This is the key issue with FHM testing and Parity/HAM (hereafter referred to as PHAM). Would it really upset people that much if hamilton won 5 cups in a row if that investment was only 5 months as opposed to 1 year? Would it be that bad if your team got upset in the playoffs if you had another coming down the pipe in 4 weeks? Would it bother people if they drafted a bust if their players careers only lasted 12 to 18 months, as opposed to 24 to 36?

The solution is not to expand the length of seasons to give GMs more time for testing, more time for scouting, more time for trades. The solution is to reduce how much the SHL matters in our lives.

The SHL should be FUN.

Do you guys remember that? The feeling that anything could happen, the feeling that there was a depth to the league that couldn't be conceived? And how you feel now, now that you know how the sausage is made? Now that you know you can't just draft fun, dedicated earners, you have to also sim a playoff game 100 times every other day?

I'll be real with you, i broke down because I felt like I was letting everyone down, or because I felt like I was going to if I didn't get it right. I felt like I had to sim for hours every night to give us the cutting edge of success, the best possible combo (it was always copy ham strats anyway). I felt like others' enjoyment of the league was dependent on how well I did my job. I don't think I'm alone in that.

We have to strip down the season. There needs to be less to do and less on the line. No one needs to sim that much during the regular season, they shouldn't even have the opportunity. They shouldn't even have the opportunity to sim between playoff games. It's too much. You shouldn't have to do a background check on your draft picks to make sure your locker room stays at optimal engagement and enjoyment.

This is saying nothing of how little room there is for casual play in this league, or how people are using HAM as a lightning rod because they're one of a few professional teams in a league of amateurs. The league needs to take itself less seriously. Otherwise, there will only be room for one type of user, and it's the type that all of you seem to hate.
Shortening the season sounds like a horrendous idea. All your doing is inflating seasons and I would 100% enjoy the league less because of it. GMs already feel overwhelmed (at least some do), and forcing a shorter season isn't going to magically make the feel less overwhelmed.

I understand where you're coming from, but if I wanted a sim league where I barely had to do anything, I'd go join some other league that already does that.

No disrespect, but reducing your workload by half shouldnt mean "barely any work", else we wouldnt be talking about how much work it normally is.

I really do think GMs are simultaneously wanting shorter seasons AND more time to do work. You guys, the call is coming from INSIDE THE HOUSE. Make the work less worth it and it wont need to be done (and on the other hand, if you rebuild you wont have to sit on your hands as long)

trella · 05-25-2022, 01:57 PM

05-25-2022, 05:51 AMMemento Mori Wrote:
05-23-2022, 05:05 PMtrella Wrote: What I do believe is that your team’s philosophy and outlook on the league is harmful. The SHL is supposed to be a be a pro experience. That’s at least what made me love this league and stay for as long as I have. I feel like the way you guys run things takes that away. Yes, your locker room is bumping all the time and you guys are a great group and great people, no matter what people say about you personally, but I feel that your attitude towards team building and player building is all wrong.

Rotti, I don’t know how you can say there is a “correct” build. That doesn’t exist. The only correct build is the build that best emulates the player that people WANT to build. When people ask for help on their builds, you should be asking, “okay, what type of player do you want to build?” and you should be giving advice based on that response.
Maybe I'm being pedantic but SHL definitely isn't a be a pro experience, maybe it was once. I find sim leagues to be a very blank slate in terms of how they enable people to engage with them, even more so now that there's a web of affiliated sim leagues where many of us are in several of them. The way some people play represents that kind of experience, but you have users who neglect their own player and primarily want to GM/take on other important league jobs and you have players who are quite clearly here for the locker rooms/community rather than their player's success.

In other leagues I've had clear plans for my players, but I've never watched a hockey game - I joined because lots of my sim league friends said this was their favourite league, and that ties into the point about builds. I'm here for the locker rooms and every time I have sufficient TPE, I ask my GM how to spend it and ask them to build whatever player helps the team most. If someone asked me what type of player I wanted to build, I would have no idea. I just want to help the team.

I get why people like you and RED find the importance and influence of GMs frustrating, but I wonder how many people feel the same way as you and would prefer if it was more individualistic.

I understand what you’re saying, but I totally disagree. This league is based on its players. If nobody created players, there would be no league. When we were on STHS, GMing still mattered a lot. The GMs that made the best trades, signed the best FAs, and drafted the best generally succeeded. However, in the current state of the league that stuff has taken a backseat. Of course, its all still important, but it pales in comparison to the worth of sim knowledge and meta knowledge. This has taken all of the power and fun out of the average player’s hands.

Basically I think that its really fucking stupid that a small minority of users are really all that’s important in this league anymore. The players don’t really matter. I think this is especially clear when looking at media. There used to be media being posted constantly even when the league was much smaller. Media about player backstories, stats, rivalries, anything you can think of. But that really doesn’t happen anymore, and I don’t think it’s because there’s “too much money” going around. It’s because being a normal player in this league sucks and theres no interesting player builds, rivalries besides the top teams, or really anything that makes players feel like they have their OWN player.

There’s no reason to test FA unless you want to get on one of HAM/BUF/TEX/CHI. People left teams for BAP/TBB/LAP/etc, all good teams, but they all had no chance to win because of lack of sim knowledge. Currently all the marbles lie on the GMs and not the players and for a league that only exists because everyone makes a player, this makes no sense. If people wanted to join a GM league for FHM, they would. There are many.

Your approach to the league isn’t wrong either. It’s totally okay to just want to help the team. But this shouldn’t be a mandatory mindset to have any chance of success in this league.

The league isn’t fun for players anymore, and it wasn’t fun to GM either, at least in my experience.

Thanks to @karey and @JSS for the sigs!

Former USA Fed Head, Carolina Kraken Co-GM, Tampa Bay Barracuda GM

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 05-25-2022, 06:07 PM

05-25-2022, 01:57 PMtrella Wrote:
05-25-2022, 05:51 AMMemento Mori Wrote: Maybe I'm being pedantic but SHL definitely isn't a be a pro experience, maybe it was once. I find sim leagues to be a very blank slate in terms of how they enable people to engage with them, even more so now that there's a web of affiliated sim leagues where many of us are in several of them. The way some people play represents that kind of experience, but you have users who neglect their own player and primarily want to GM/take on other important league jobs and you have players who are quite clearly here for the locker rooms/community rather than their player's success.

In other leagues I've had clear plans for my players, but I've never watched a hockey game - I joined because lots of my sim league friends said this was their favourite league, and that ties into the point about builds. I'm here for the locker rooms and every time I have sufficient TPE, I ask my GM how to spend it and ask them to build whatever player helps the team most. If someone asked me what type of player I wanted to build, I would have no idea. I just want to help the team.

I get why people like you and RED find the importance and influence of GMs frustrating, but I wonder how many people feel the same way as you and would prefer if it was more individualistic.
I understand what you’re saying, but I totally disagree. This league is based on its players. If nobody created players, there would be no league. When we were on STHS, GMing still mattered a lot. The GMs that made the best trades, signed the best FAs, and drafted the best generally succeeded. However, in the current state of the league that stuff has taken a backseat. Of course, its all still important, but it pales in comparison to the worth of sim knowledge and meta knowledge. This has taken all of the power and fun out of the average player’s hands.

Basically I think that its really fucking stupid that a small minority of users are really all that’s important in this league anymore. The players don’t really matter. I think this is especially clear when looking at media. There used to be media being posted constantly even when the league was much smaller. Media about player backstories, stats, rivalries, anything you can think of. But that really doesn’t happen anymore, and I don’t think it’s because there’s “too much money” going around. It’s because being a normal player in this league sucks and theres no interesting player builds, rivalries besides the top teams, or really anything that makes players feel like they have their OWN player.

There’s no reason to test FA unless you want to get on one of HAM/BUF/TEX/CHI. People left teams for BAP/TBB/LAP/etc, all good teams, but they all had no chance to win because of lack of sim knowledge. Currently all the marbles lie on the GMs and not the players and for a league that only exists because everyone makes a player, this makes no sense. If people wanted to join a GM league for FHM, they would. There are many.

Your approach to the league isn’t wrong either. It’s totally okay to just want to help the team. But this shouldn’t be a mandatory mindset to have any chance of success in this league.

The league isn’t fun for players anymore, and it wasn’t fun to GM either, at least in my experience.

Well said, especially the very first paragraph.

***Ohtaay*** · 05-26-2022, 10:31 PM

Well that was a read and a half.

Bfine · 05-27-2022, 08:59 AM

05-25-2022, 01:43 PMPremierBromanov Wrote:
05-25-2022, 01:26 PMbrickwall35 Wrote: Shortening the season sounds like a horrendous idea. All your doing is inflating seasons and I would 100% enjoy the league less because of it. GMs already feel overwhelmed (at least some do), and forcing a shorter season isn't going to magically make the feel less overwhelmed.

I understand where you're coming from, but if I wanted a sim league where I barely had to do anything, I'd go join some other league that already does that.

No disrespect, but reducing your workload by half shouldnt mean "barely any work", else we wouldnt be talking about how much work it normally is.

I really do think GMs are simultaneously wanting shorter seasons AND more time to do work. You guys, the call is coming from INSIDE THE HOUSE. Make the work less worth it and it wont need to be done (and on the other hand, if you rebuild you wont have to sit on your hands as long)

I'm too lazy to reply to multiple posts so I'll do it all here.

I don't think a 4 week season would solve any issues, yes more time is always nice but as a current GM a 4 week season sounds like hell. It's too crunched to be able to effectively plan long-term. HO set up an 8 week season (Just extended to 9 to try and help drive engagement on WJC/IIHF) and I think thats a perfect timeline in regards to being able to GM effectively.

In regards to testing, yes it still happens but, at least on SFP, not on that high of a level. We (toast) ran 20 tests at the start of the season, and would run about 10/20 if anything needed changing during a slump. In the playoffs, he only ran those same 10/20 tests if games weren't going well to see if a fix was needed (probably happened 3 or 4 times in our last playoff run). So roughly 50/60 tests and we made it to game 7 of the West Finals. Testing may still be an issue but at least in our experience we aren't running 500 tests per playoff round.

Finally GM chat. I didn't want to GM again in large part due to GM chat and my experience last time. Yes there are still people in there I would rather not speak with, but good news you don't really have to if you don't want to. It's a much better environment, I'm sure in large part driven by WBF working on fixing what he knew was a problem in there (Also don't compliment stinky HO too much PB).

Does the league still have problems? Sure. Every sim league does. But with a new sim engine on the way and a new commish at the helm I can honestly say things are at least trending in the right direction. Out of the big 4 two of them are really struggling this year, so it's finally looking like new blood will be at the top, at least for this season.

I do always appreciate your thoughts PB and I truly hope you are still enjoying life and your time away (That new farm looks badass)

CaptainCamel · 05-27-2022, 10:43 AM

The quotes from people talking about how "toxic" some GMs can be is pretty disappointing. I still consider myself a "newbie" (first character) and have only been on two teams (ANC, ATL), but I've had nothing but good times in the LR and with the GMs. I had kind of just assumed all of the LRs were this fun cheery environment where of course the goal was to win, but it's not like there's any toxicity thrown around if we lose.

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