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***Caleb*** · 12-22-2022, 09:28 PM

12-22-2022, 01:29 AMPremierBromanov Wrote: Goaltending should be a job that comes with pt pass and $6m salary

lmao this is fucking fantastic

***luke*** · 12-22-2022, 09:29 PM

12-22-2022, 11:00 AMbrickwall35 Wrote:
12-22-2022, 04:21 AMCarpy48 Wrote: In general I agree with what Jess said, but also...

I'm not sure if this was a joke or not, but I'll give you a serious reply here anyway (and my opinion). That's kind of part of what comes with playing goalie in the league. You have you ignore the TPE part entirely and see the team as a whole - goalies are only as good as their team is. Something like this simply happens and it will happen to you more often that you're happy with it. You can be the highest TPE goalie in the league, but there will be situations that you can't control. Missing the playoffs is part of that. If we want to take it even a step further and bring the whole role-playing aspect into the picture: you'll definitely need to be mentally strong to play a goalie. For most people it's not fun, but nobody can really win all the time anyway.

I really don't think wanting to swap because of this is the solution. Not that late into someone's career. The cap relief seems a better potential solution.
Montreal had a higher TPE team than BUF. My goalie has gotten worse as both he and the team has gotten better.

sometimes goalies are voodoo

***HabsFanFromOntario*** · 01-12-2023, 03:20 PM

Bump because yeah seriously.

***Reno*** · 01-12-2023, 05:32 PM

One of the reasons I retired Petrov was because I felt like I was hurting Atlanta with my cap hits even though I was doing well and taking hometown discounts. I just mattered that much less than a skater and the 4m they spent a year on me could be better spent on beefing up offense or defense.

Would making goalie cap hits 0 be overpowered? Maybe. That's a data situation that I am not nearly smart enough to understand or try and solve. I think a half hit that is paid out in full to the player could be viable.

I wish the answer was simple or easy because I loved making Petrov and I loved building his story and crafting him into an award winner. But the cons outweighed the pros and he went kaput.

***Sburbine*** · 01-12-2023, 05:38 PM

01-12-2023, 05:32 PMRenoJacksonHS Wrote: One of the reasons I retired Petrov was because I felt like I was hurting Atlanta with my cap hits even though I was doing well and taking hometown discounts. I just mattered that much less than a skater and the 4m they spent a year on me could be better spent on beefing up offense or defense.

Would making goalie cap hits 0 be overpowered? Maybe. That's a data situation that I am not nearly smart enough to understand or try and solve. I think a half hit that is paid out in full to the player could be viable.

I wish the answer was simple or easy because I loved making Petrov and I loved building his story and crafting him into an award winner. But the cons outweighed the pros and he went kaput.

It should definitely be reduced but maybe not zero cap hit. Last season showed that spending 8% of your cap on a goalie is hurtful to your team when you can just have 2 425s can carry a team to a final.

spooked · 01-12-2023, 05:42 PM

01-12-2023, 05:32 PMRenoJacksonHS Wrote: One of the reasons I retired Petrov was because I felt like I was hurting Atlanta with my cap hits even though I was doing well and taking hometown discounts. I just mattered that much less than a skater and the 4m they spent a year on me could be better spent on beefing up offense or defense.

Would making goalie cap hits 0 be overpowered? Maybe. That's a data situation that I am not nearly smart enough to understand or try and solve. I think a half hit that is paid out in full to the player could be viable.

I wish the answer was simple or easy because I loved making Petrov and I loved building his story and crafting him into an award winner. But the cons outweighed the pros and he went kaput.

HO would have to figure some rules out, but as far as I am concerned they could implement free goalies or half-cap goalies anytime, just need to scale the cap down a little based on who saved the least from the change probably so they stay compliant. Only concern after that is who determines how much the goalies should get. Half-cap avoids that a bit, but then you open some doors up, like waters getting 20M from EDM could be 40M for a goalie. FA goalies could get tens of millions up-front in theory cause it would be half value for a team with cap space, and then does retaining on the half cap do anything etc. Mostly small issues to figure out that could be handled as they come up tbh.

***HabsFanFromOntario*** · 01-12-2023, 05:53 PM

01-12-2023, 05:42 PMspooked Wrote:
01-12-2023, 05:32 PMRenoJacksonHS Wrote: One of the reasons I retired Petrov was because I felt like I was hurting Atlanta with my cap hits even though I was doing well and taking hometown discounts. I just mattered that much less than a skater and the 4m they spent a year on me could be better spent on beefing up offense or defense.

Would making goalie cap hits 0 be overpowered? Maybe. That's a data situation that I am not nearly smart enough to understand or try and solve. I think a half hit that is paid out in full to the player could be viable.

I wish the answer was simple or easy because I loved making Petrov and I loved building his story and crafting him into an award winner. But the cons outweighed the pros and he went kaput.

HO would have to figure some rules out, but as far as I am concerned they could implement free goalies or half-cap goalies anytime, just need to scale the cap down a little based on who saved the least from the change probably so they stay compliant. Only concern after that is who determines how much the goalies should get. Half-cap avoids that a bit, but then you open some doors up, like waters getting 20M from EDM could be 40M for a goalie. FA goalies could get tens of millions up-front in theory cause it would be half value for a team with cap space, and then does retaining on the half cap do anything etc. Mostly small issues to figure out that could be handled as they come up tbh.

It's not that goalies money should count half against the cap, it's that their minimums could be halved. Also it was 35.5 million.

***RAmenAmen*** · 01-12-2023, 06:01 PM

01-12-2023, 05:53 PMHabsFanFromOntario Wrote:
01-12-2023, 05:42 PMspooked Wrote: HO would have to figure some rules out, but as far as I am concerned they could implement free goalies or half-cap goalies anytime, just need to scale the cap down a little based on who saved the least from the change probably so they stay compliant. Only concern after that is who determines how much the goalies should get. Half-cap avoids that a bit, but then you open some doors up, like waters getting 20M from EDM could be 40M for a goalie. FA goalies could get tens of millions up-front in theory cause it would be half value for a team with cap space, and then does retaining on the half cap do anything etc. Mostly small issues to figure out that could be handled as they come up tbh.

It's not that goalies money should count half against the cap, it's that their minimums could be halved. Also it was 35.5 million.

Give me my 70M contract!

But seriously, I like the half cap idea, and you could easily void the cap relief if the contract was over a certain amount. I want a long career and i want a 2k badge, but not if it hurts my team.

scudmuffin19 · 01-12-2023, 06:49 PM

01-12-2023, 06:01 PMRAmenAmen Wrote:
01-12-2023, 05:53 PMHabsFanFromOntario Wrote: It's not that goalies money should count half against the cap, it's that their minimums could be halved. Also it was 35.5 million.

Give me my 70M contract!

But seriously, I like the half cap idea, and you could easily void the cap relief if the contract was over a certain amount. I want a long career and i want a 2k badge, but not if it hurts my team.

Wait I thought the reason people made goalies was so they didnt have to earn, like me :')

spooked · 01-12-2023, 10:41 PM

01-12-2023, 06:01 PMRAmenAmen Wrote:
01-12-2023, 05:53 PMHabsFanFromOntario Wrote: It's not that goalies money should count half against the cap, it's that their minimums could be halved. Also it was 35.5 million.

Give me my 70M contract!

But seriously, I like the half cap idea, and you could easily void the cap relief if the contract was over a certain amount. I want a long career and i want a 2k badge, but not if it hurts my team.

Honestly could even just give teams a third HTD for starting goalies only that are with the team for the usually amount of time. Gets you down to 4M at least without burning your 2 HTDs, and avoids some of the other issues with cap changes. There are like 4-5 different straightforward ways to make it better :(

Bfine · 01-12-2023, 10:59 PM

01-12-2023, 10:41 PMspooked Wrote:
01-12-2023, 06:01 PMRAmenAmen Wrote: Give me my 70M contract!

But seriously, I like the half cap idea, and you could easily void the cap relief if the contract was over a certain amount. I want a long career and i want a 2k badge, but not if it hurts my team.

Honestly could even just give teams a third HTD for starting goalies only that are with the team for the usually amount of time. Gets you down to 4M at least without burning your 2 HTDs, and avoids some of the other issues with cap changes. There are like 4-5 different straightforward ways to make it better :(

Except that doesn’t make it better because then you’re saying goalies should always be paid less than skaters, whereas something like half cap still pays a goalie their full amount. You could make it where a goalie HTD still pays out the full amount but then you’re really just splitting hairs between HTD and half cap. HTDs would also disincentivize any goalie from leaving in FA because very few teams would pay 6M for a max earning goalie that hit the market.

spooked · 01-12-2023, 11:14 PM

01-12-2023, 10:59 PMBfine Wrote:
01-12-2023, 10:41 PMspooked Wrote: Honestly could even just give teams a third HTD for starting goalies only that are with the team for the usually amount of time. Gets you down to 4M at least without burning your 2 HTDs, and avoids some of the other issues with cap changes. There are like 4-5 different straightforward ways to make it better :(
Except that doesn’t make it better because then you’re saying goalies should always be paid less than skaters, whereas something like half cap still pays a goalie their full amount. You could make it where a goalie HTD still pays out the full amount but then you’re really just splitting hairs between HTD and half cap. HTDs would also disincentivize any goalie from leaving in FA because very few teams would pay 6M for a max earning goalie that hit the market.

Yes you are totally right, I was more just thinking that a specific HTD tomorrow could help a little while giving more time to figure out the long term solution. Players have to take minimum as it is, so the same thinking applies to how the cap is right now for skaters as well. Two people HAVE to take less than they worth just to help the team be better, so I don't think it's necessarily less equity than having skaters be pressured to take less for the cap either, I am not personally a fan of how HTD works either tbh.

***Wally*** · 01-12-2023, 11:25 PM

Stop being an overachieving, tpe earning goaltender and we don't have this convo. ezpz

Let Cale come out of retirement too, damn it.

FaraDian · 01-13-2023, 10:23 AM

I'm one of the folks who expects to recreate as a goalie, though that's kinda far down the road. I would hate to see them all become bots, and I actually do like that it will likely be less pressure to earn. It's not so far off from real life that a good goalie can do crap numbers on a bad team and vice versa. So it really is the cap hit and pay scale that we should keep discussing.

I don't think lowering goalie minimum pay creates an issue. The main use of money is buying training/coaching. So by paying goalies less, we may prevent them from maxxing out TPE through purchases... But we're also saying goalies don't need to max TPE. This seems like a straightforward "you get less because you need less" situation. Are we worried about a feels-bad somehow?

And if we're saying that a 6m goalie does no better for a team than a 2m goalie, then pay them all 2m. Maybe there's a bidding war for a free agent bc of their LR presence or something, but it seems like a) no in-game incentive to pay goalies more because b) no in-game incentive for goalies to do earn/spend more.

Maybe FHM10 solves this for us, just currently seems like goalie is a roleplay-first position, and that's fine. Put some bot goalies in the J if we absolutely need to, I guess. Or let F/D reroll as goalie while they're in the J if necessary; they would still create and get drafted as the build they intend, would still demonstrate their earning/activity, and could get a chance to play a needed position if their team has 6 centers.

PremierBromanov · 01-13-2023, 11:10 AM

01-12-2023, 05:32 PMRenoJacksonHS Wrote: One of the reasons I retired Petrov was because I felt like I was hurting Atlanta with my cap hits even though I was doing well and taking hometown discounts. I just mattered that much less than a skater and the 4m they spent a year on me could be better spent on beefing up offense or defense.

Would making goalie cap hits 0 be overpowered? Maybe. That's a data situation that I am not nearly smart enough to understand or try and solve. I think a half hit that is paid out in full to the player could be viable.

I wish the answer was simple or easy because I loved making Petrov and I loved building his story and crafting him into an award winner. But the cons outweighed the pros and he went kaput.

Since a team must carry 2 goalies and a maximum of 3 extra players (who are not dressed), there's really nothing bad about a zero cap hit in terms of the roster itself. It's not useful to carry more than 2. The only real problem with zero cap hit is that goalies still need to get paid and the cap hit is effectively their salary. We cant really automatically set their salary to their usual TPE cap hit, because this eliminates one of the players incentives and their agency to make deals with GMs for extensions or free agency.

I think the easiest, perhaps most obvious answer is that teams have a separate goalie cap hit they can spend. Call it $10m or something. I feel like HO has mentioned something like this before, so maybe its in the works. Maybe im just late to the party here.

But seriously, the biggest problem with goalies is that they dont feel like the space they are taking up matches the contributions they are allowed to make to the team. So, eliminate the drawback of taking up space.

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