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TnlAstatine · 02-23-2023, 01:57 PM

re-sim the re-sim plz

*CementHands* · 02-23-2023, 02:07 PM

02-23-2023, 10:04 AMsköldpaddor Wrote: I do want to stress again that yes, there are bigger problems that would be caused by continuing to use that file. To continue using that file, we would have had to have either:
- committed fully to no one having their last update of the season in for the entire playoffs (it wasn’t just “a few teams” it was all of them)
- audidted the file to put all of them in all over again plus some other errors that were in the file other than the missing updates

There were no good options here. The resim was the precedent that has been set in the past, and is also the way that didn’t require us to completely audit the file and make the file team re-do an entire update cycle of work. I am also sorry that people have lost some stats, but continuing to use the wrong file was not a viable option.

I agree there aren't good options, but you would not have to commit to not having any updated files for playoffs. Options could have been to apply to current update immediately, or at the end of this update cycle. Going with either of these you could have selected to play the first round with the current file and update, or update immediately.
People are going to complain either way, but saying the 2 options were "finish the playoffs on the current, un updated file", or "restart the playoffs with an updated file" leaves out a lot of other discussion that I'm sure HO went through.

***sköldpaddor*** · 02-23-2023, 02:42 PM

02-23-2023, 02:07 PMCementHands Wrote: I agree there aren't good options, but you would not have to commit to not having any updated files for playoffs. Options could have been to apply to current update immediately, or at the end of this update cycle. Going with either of these you could have selected to play the first round with the current file and update, or update immediately.
People are going to complain either way, but saying the 2 options were "finish the playoffs on the current, un updated file", or "restart the playoffs with an updated file" leaves out a lot of other discussion that I'm sure HO went through.

I think I might not have phrased that correctly, because there are definitely more than two options here that I intended to stress. The point I intended to make was that any path forward that involved continuing with the un-updated file would have required us to fully audit the file (because there were other errors brought to our attention outside of just the missing updates) and re-do all of the updates, regardless of when that was going to happen.

In any case outside of re-simming, we would have had to have redone the work that the filework team had already done once, in order to preserve the result of four games that were decided without an entire cycle of updates that GMs were working under the assumption their teams had. In light of all that, in addition to the fact that we have previously re-simmed for this exact issue twice in the past few seasons, I'm not sure much of a case could be made for the amount of extra work that would have been required from multiple departments. I think consistency is important, and I don't think it would make for much consistency if we had just decided "yeah we re-simmed for this last time but this time we are going to come up with a different solution that's more trouble in order to maintain the results of games that were decided between teams with old builds because we just would really rather not go through another re-sim"

*CementHands* · 02-23-2023, 02:56 PM

02-23-2023, 02:42 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: I think I might not have phrased that correctly, because there are definitely more than two options here that I intended to stress. The point I intended to make was that any path forward that involved continuing with the un-updated file would have required us to fully audit the file (because there were other errors brought to our attention outside of just the missing updates) and re-do all of the updates, regardless of when that was going to happen.

In any case outside of re-simming, we would have had to have redone the work that the filework team had already done once, in order to preserve the result of four games that were decided without an entire cycle of updates that GMs were working under the assumption their teams had. In light of all that, in addition to the fact that we have previously re-simmed for this exact issue twice in the past few seasons, I'm not sure much of a case could be made for the amount of extra work that would have been required from multiple departments. I think consistency is important, and I don't think it would make for much consistency if we had just decided "yeah we re-simmed for this last time but this time we are going to come up with a different solution that's more trouble in order to maintain the results of games that were decided between teams with old builds because we just would really rather not go through another re-sim"

Appreciate that, something seemed missing and that's cleared up now.
I believe last time there was a punishment announced in the offseason for some playoff mishaps to not pile on the playoff issues, safe to assume something is coming as nothing has been announced yet?
More important than a punishment is what steps are being taken to prevent this kind of thing from happening again? SHL has been kindof a laughing stock of the sim leagues for their file issues, and this seems to happen way too frequently.

Appreciate the speed and depth of HO on these time sensitive decisions, I know they make for very busy, frantic days and nights when they pop up.

***Gwdjohnson*** · 02-23-2023, 04:51 PM

im definitely thinking this was a good decision

***RAmenAmen*** · 02-23-2023, 06:02 PM

Knowingly using results from an incorrect file and disregarding legitimate updates should be avoided whenever possible. Playoffs in particular are when it's most important to respect the efforts users have made all season and ensure the tpe they earned is applied correctly.

Resims suck, but knowing you won or lost but didn't do it with your actual build is worse.

Accka · 02-23-2023, 06:45 PM

You gotta do what you gotta do

/

Big thanks to Pythonic(first sig evah), Sloth(first LAP sig<3) and Ragnar for their sigs<3

Two time playoffs MVP and two time nominee

Triple gold club

Discord: asska

**The__Y-man__100** · 02-23-2023, 07:04 PM

02-22-2023, 08:02 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: To be fair, it was not even two full days (game 1 sim, when this first happened, was simmed at 3pm on Monday. The absolute earliest anyone could have discovered this was after that sim, and it was brought to us before noon today, so we’re talking less than 48 hours). There isn’t really an ongoing audit process that happens every day; it was caught when it was because GMs were looking at their own player builds. I’m not really sure there’s time for it to be practical to actively audit the file every day during playoffs, but I think it’s a good thing it was noticed four games into the first round and not any later.

Also, not in direct reply to this post but in regard to others - if we kept simming with this file, we were either committed to going the entire playoffs without everyone’s final update of the season, OR someone would have had to have audited the entire file for errors and re-input all of the updates for an entire cycle. There really were no great options here, but we chose the precedented path that we felt was both more fair and required the least amount of “making people do the same work twice.”

fair enough, I just assumed since it was 4 games that were simulated that means it was 4 days of this file (iirc i thought I read somewhere it was planned for 1 game a night)

First ever Yukon Malamute draft pick (1st overall S65)

Kalakar · 02-23-2023, 07:07 PM

ho you have my number

*CementHands* · 02-23-2023, 07:48 PM

02-23-2023, 07:07 PMKalakar Wrote: ho you have my number

:blurry eyes:

adamantium · 02-23-2023, 09:38 PM

02-23-2023, 04:51 PMGwdjohnson Wrote: im definitely thinking this was a good decision

you got a posting ban shut up

sigs by me bitch

*Count Chocula* · 02-23-2023, 11:15 PM

I'm just here so I don't get fined

***aleks*** · 02-23-2023, 11:41 PM

Crazy how Hamilton caused a resim because they got swept and then got swept again. I feel like they should be relocated and rebranded because they got swept and beaned twice in one playoff

spooked · 02-23-2023, 11:45 PM

02-23-2023, 11:41 PMaleks Wrote: Crazy how Hamilton caused a resim because they got swept and then got swept again. I feel like they should be relocated and rebranded because they got swept and beaned twice in one playoff

Amilton Tealhawks inc

***CampinKiller*** · 02-24-2023, 12:45 AM

02-23-2023, 11:41 PMaleks Wrote: Crazy how Hamilton caused a resim because they got swept and then got swept again. I feel like they should be relocated and rebranded because they got swept and beaned twice in one playoff

Move them to Portland

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