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S71 Fantasy TPE Change
#16

05-05-2023, 10:39 AMFrenchie Wrote: With that in mind, HO set out to create a new distribution bracket which would reduce the max amount of TPE earning, whilst also enabling more users to gain TPE.

If one of the goals was to enable more users to gain TPE, why was the original 4/3/2/1 4/3/2/1 idea rejected in favour of the system that gives an extra $1mil instead? The number of players earning TPE each season stays the same with this system. I'm still glad HO chose this system over some of the other proposed ones, but I'm wondering what advantages you saw in 5/4/3/2 3/2/1/$ over 4/3/2/1 4/3/2/1?

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#17

05-05-2023, 10:59 AMscudmuffin19 Wrote: was it bad that max earning was impossible

Max earning should require effort, but it shouldn't be hugely influenced by whether you got a lucky roll into a fantasy group of people who don't know how to fantasy or got screwed by winding up in a group where you get sixth place for a score that would have won the majority of other groups.

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#18

05-05-2023, 11:05 AMsköldpaddor Wrote: Max earning should require effort, but it shouldn't be hugely influenced by whether you got a lucky roll into a fantasy group of people who don't know how to fantasy or got screwed by winding up in a group where you get sixth place for a score that would have won the majority of other groups.

I would argue no matter how you do it, it will be hugely influenced by your group considering how drafting works. People not taking good picks, gives you a huge advantage over people in competitive groups even in this system. The only way to avoid the group influence is to have fantasy operate more like modern fantasy systems where you get a budget and just pick who you want, but you would need to blackbox that so it's not just people copying one another... but then the people with the black box key would be able to game the system a bit themselves, so those people would need an avg payout or something etc. etc.
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#19

05-05-2023, 10:59 AMKeven Wrote: If one of the goals was to enable more users to gain TPE, why was the original 4/3/2/1 4/3/2/1 idea rejected in favour of the system that gives an extra $1mil instead? The number of players earning TPE each season stays the same with this system. I'm still glad HO chose this system over some of the other proposed ones, but I'm wondering what advantages you saw in 5/4/3/2 3/2/1/$ over 4/3/2/1 4/3/2/1?
I think the phrasing might have been an issue there. What we found with the new system is that we can have a more even distribution of reward TPE among the group of fantasy participants by reducing the maximum and raising the minimum TPE for finishing in the top of your group. We also found that because of the RNG element to assigning users to fantasy groups, some users were drafting incredible teams and still getting squeezed out of any rewards because they were in such a strong group. That’s where we loop in the Global rewards. This system also puts more $$ in the banks of our fantasy participants as a whole.

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#20

05-05-2023, 11:10 AMspooked Wrote: I would argue no matter how you do it, it will be hugely influenced by your group considering how drafting works. People not taking good picks, gives you a huge advantage over people in competitive groups even in this system. The only way to avoid the group influence is to have fantasy operate more like modern fantasy systems where you get a budget and just pick who you want, but you would need to blackbox that so it's not just people copying one another... but then the people with the black box key would be able to game the system a bit themselves, so those people would need an avg payout or something etc. etc.
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#21

05-05-2023, 11:10 AMspooked Wrote: I would argue no matter how you do it, it will be hugely influenced by your group considering how drafting works. People not taking good picks, gives you a huge advantage over people in competitive groups even in this system. The only way to avoid the group influence is to have fantasy operate more like modern fantasy systems where you get a budget and just pick who you want, but you would need to blackbox that so it's not just people copying one another... but then the people with the black box key would be able to game the system a bit themselves, so those people would need an avg payout or something etc. etc.

There will definitely still be an advantage to ending up in a group where you're the only one trying/good at it. And to a certain lesser extent, we don't mind that; there's always going to be some luck and some skill involved with this (just like there is with prediction type PTs - you can look at numbers from past samples, but at the end of the day, there's always a little bit of luck involved).

The idea here was to spread the TPE out a little more, so people are still rewarded for being good at fantasy regardless of how good the rest of their group is. If you get a garbage group where everybody is making terrible picks except you and you get all the good players, you'll probably still score pretty high globally, but that'll get you a max of 8TPE now instead of 10TPE just for group performance. And conversely, if you get in a good group of people who know what they're doing and/or make good picks, you'll still have a shot at TPE since you're now also competing more with people from other groups. All in all, it's not a gigantic change, it's just shifting the weight a little more towards global comparison instead of group comparison.

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#22

05-05-2023, 11:13 AMWannabeFinn Wrote: I think the phrasing might have been an issue there. What we found with the new system is that we can have a more even distribution of reward TPE among the group of fantasy participants by reducing the maximum and raising the minimum TPE for finishing in the top of your group. We also found that because of the RNG element to assigning users to fantasy groups, some users were drafting incredible teams and still getting squeezed out of any rewards because they were in such a strong group. That’s where we loop in the Global rewards. This system also puts more $$ in the banks of our fantasy participants as a whole.

This is a great response for anyone who wasn't aware of the system beforehand, but my question came from the perspective of the person who came to bbjygm with the idea to change distribution and supplied HO with all the distribution graphs. I was already very much on board with the idea of reducing the maximum from 10 to 8 and adding the global component, but I was mainly wondering what the reasons were behind seeing both the blue and green graphs and picking green over blue.

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#23

Booooooooo

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#24

05-05-2023, 10:48 AMRAmenAmen Wrote: Someone tell me how to feel about this

I would say rage, you feel rage.

I on the other hand feel ok with this.

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#25

Aw man

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#26

I like this a lot.

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#27

05-05-2023, 11:22 AMKeven Wrote: This is a great response for anyone who wasn't aware of the system beforehand, but my question came from the perspective of the person who came to bbjygm with the idea to change distribution and supplied HO with all the distribution graphs. I was already very much on board with the idea of reducing the maximum from 10 to 8 and adding the global component, but I was mainly wondering what the reasons were behind seeing both the blue and green graphs and picking green over blue.
I understand where you're coming from, but in the end we still needed to balance out TPE gains in order to address them being too high. IIRC, that's what edged one over the other, but as we said, we'll be monitoring the next season and nothing is ever 100% permanent, so we'll look forward to getting feedback!

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#28

05-05-2023, 11:31 AMFrenchie Wrote: I understand where you're coming from, but in the end we still needed to balance out TPE gains in order to address them being too high. IIRC, that's what edged one over the other, but as we said, we'll be monitoring the next season and nothing is ever 100% permanent, so we'll look forward to getting feedback!

If TPE gains being too high was a concern, doesn't that just give another reason to choose blue over green? Both systems add 20 TPE per group into the ecosystem, but the green system introduces an additional $1mil per group and concentrates the actual TPE gain across fewer users.

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#29

I worked hard for those 10 tpes

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#30

They saw me finally win and decided they had seen enough

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