Quote:Originally posted by LVShark@Oct 6 2015, 06:06 PM I wasn't putting any blame on the people around with guns Who didn't act. I wasn't there and I don't know what the situation was when the shooter pulled the gun
Quote:Originally posted by Allen@Oct 6 2015, 02:10 PM
Everything is capable of murder. I could suffocate you to death with a pillow, that doesn't make it inherently bad.
There is no "right" solution to regulating guns. We've seen what happened in Chicago, but I have many friends in New York (which has imposed stricter regulations) who have been waiting 8+ months to get a pistol permit. California has some of the harshest gun laws and has been notorious for gun related deaths.
The ideal answer is they are eradicated and we live in a utopian society where everyone loves everyone and is free from violence. That's obviously not achievable. So you make stricter regulations to buy a firearm. More extensive background checks and mental health screenings. Who is going to pay the fees to have this done? This would create an issue between the people and government about who would foot the bill and if it's constitutional. What type of guns can we keep? Again, how do you differentiate between what's acceptable and what isn't? Is a break-action rifle acceptable if it's needed for hunting? For home defense? Once again, that raises more questions which would have to be answered by the courts.
This entire debate is futile. There's hardly any discernible middle ground and I don't see anything changing in the future. I came into this thread to defend responsible gun owners who aren't going to shoot up schools and public facilities. I don't know how to solve the issue, and I don't think we'll ever find a solution that will appease everybody.
Quote:Originally posted by Mark H@Oct 6 2015, 02:04 PM
Exactly but to say to look at the students who COULD have been carrying around the shooter is just dumb.
Teachers are okay though. We can put teachers in harms way because if they have to carry a gun to class everyday and when that moment occurs they are the ones expect to step up and defend.
#40 Niclas Wastlund - W - VANCOUVER WHALERS / MINNESOTA MONARCHS
I wish I didn't have to drive so I could stay updated on this thread.. So I'll leave with this
I am pro gun rights and then2nd amendment. I plan on getting my CCW as soon as possible and if anyone ever threatened my life or my family's life I would have no problem shooting them.
I have an AR-15 and 9mm under my bed with full clips right next to them and if someone were to break into my house and again threaten my family or myself I would have no hesitation to pull the trigger.
I don't get how this becomes a gun issue instead of a discussion of how mentally unstable and entitled this generation is.
Even his parents couldn't put the blame on him. This adult who clearly planned out and killed innocent people! His parents couldn't admit that he was to blame. He didn't pull the trigger. The gun did. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?? That right there shows the problem. Mommy and daddy didn't teach this kid the consiquences of his actions. He was given too many participation medals and promised the world in his hand. What happens when he doesn't get what he wants? Boom. Tantrum.
Quote:Originally posted by Mark H@Oct 6 2015, 05:12 PM I don't get how this becomes a gun issue instead of a discussion of how mentally unstable and entitled this generation is.
Why must it be one or the other?
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Quote:Originally posted by teztify@Oct 6 2015, 06:10 PM
Meanwhile when statistics were brought to you showing that the things you called "bigger issues that aren't being dealt with" like heart disease are falling and being researched, you ignored it because it didn't fit your narrative that we can't focus on more than one thing at a time. Despite increased gun violence in most major cities in America this year.
To quote an <s>wise man</s> Allen, "learn a little"
Gun related homicides account for a small percentage of deaths annually. I brought those numbers in to point out that there are other issues at hand which account for more deaths, which are equally as preventable, but I don't see anyone taking a pitchfork to McDonald's or Marlboro's door?
Show me numbers for research dollars donated, and how the government is taking a stern approach to address these other issues. I may have missed them in all the hullabaloo.
Quote:Originally posted by Allen@Oct 6 2015, 05:14 PM
Gun related homicides account for a small percentage of deaths annually. I brought those numbers in to point out that there are other issues at hand which account for more deaths, which are equally as preventable, but I don't see anyone taking a pitchfork to McDonald's or Marlboro's door?
Show me numbers for research dollars donated, and how the government is taking a stern approach to address these other issues. I may have missed them in all the hullabaloo.
To be fair, people absolutely have taken pitchforks to both of their doors. Blaming them instead of themselves.
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Quote:Originally posted by Allen@Oct 6 2015, 11:10 PM
Everything is capable of murder. I could suffocate you to death with a pillow, that doesn't make it inherently bad.
This is one of the problems I see all too frequently. As soon as any conversation is had about gun deaths, the pro-gun group immediately jump to the defence of guns, as if it makes a shit of a difference. I understand that people prefer to talk about things they know a little about, but honestly, I don't give a fuck whether someone thinks guns are good or bad; I care that people are being killed. I don't want to talk about whether guns are good or bad; I want to talk about how we might move towards a world where less people are killed. Not no people, because that's nigh-on impossible, but less people.
All of that being said, this has become a rather tricky issue, and by tricky I mean very complicated. I don't want to say that it's futile, but eh... I have no fucking ideas on how to solve it. )
What I will say is that the issue is controversial now, so it's not going to be much different if the conversation is "who's going to pay for all these mental health checks?" vs "should we have tighter regulations?" I would argue that figuring out the checks is a much nicer issue to have than one where lunatics still have access to lethal weapons.
Quote:Originally posted by Mark H@Oct 6 2015, 05:15 PM
I don't see anybody talking about the kid. I may have missed it since I didn't read the thread tho
Well the thread isn't specifically about the one guy, so I'm not sure why that has any relevance.
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Quote:Originally posted by Allen@Oct 6 2015, 05:14 PM
Gun related homicides account for a small percentage of deaths annually. I brought those numbers in to point out that there are other issues at hand which account for more deaths, which are equally as preventable, but I don't see anyone taking a pitchfork to McDonald's or Marlboro's door?
Show me numbers for research dollars donated, and how the government is taking a stern approach to address these other issues. I may have missed them in all the hullabaloo.
Eating McDonalds and smoking cigarettes are choices that you know can result in personal health issues.
Getting shot and killed isn't.
How can you not differentiate these issues? Seriously it's baffling.
Quote:Originally posted by ArGarBarGar@Oct 6 2015, 05:20 PM
Well the thread isn't specifically about the one guy, so I'm not sure why that has any relevance.
Everybody blaming guns not shooters?
Obviously not practical but would you rather get rid of the shooters or guns?
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