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tweedledunn · 08-16-2019, 08:04 PM

or even highlight delete but i feel like that's letting it off easy ya kno

***artermis*** · 08-16-2019, 10:08 PM

Refresher on the Czech situation from ~10 seasons ago that was mentioned:

Everyone’s favorite IIHF drama of the year was the dreaded Czech Reddit situation.
Here’s the timeline:
Before recruitment had started, I was approached by the Czechs who wanted to make a post on Reddit for their nation. The first draft was rejected, as it read like a recruitment page, so instead any positive imagery for their nation and any mentions of creating for the Czechs had to be removed.
The result was just a line linking to their recruitment page on the site. I thought this sufficient (My second and last major decision made on my own, a mistake as Velevra tells me he would have opposed this as well).
To avoid giving Czechoslovakia an unfair advantage, all nations were informed that this was an acceptable practice as it was not technically recruitment.
Three days later several complaints were lodged, and while many were general, one was potent as it pointed out that we should not be influencing users before they have even created an account.
As such, the Czechs were asked immediately to take down the reference and they complied, as well as were accepting of any punishment.
After deliberation, the HO could find no blame to give to the Czechs, and instead the blame is on me for my ignorance in the situation and lack of consultation with my fellow commissioners.

tl;dr like velevra said, I fucked up
Thought of it more of an advisory situation then one with the weight that it did

Zombiewolf · 08-16-2019, 11:05 PM

08-16-2019, 10:08 PMartermis Wrote: Refresher on the Czech situation from ~10 seasons ago that was mentioned:

Everyone’s favorite IIHF drama of the year was the dreaded Czech Reddit situation.
Here’s the timeline:
Before recruitment had started, I was approached by the Czechs who wanted to make a post on Reddit for their nation. The first draft was rejected, as it read like a recruitment page, so instead any positive imagery for their nation and any mentions of creating for the Czechs had to be removed.
The result was just a line linking to their recruitment page on the site. I thought this sufficient (My second and last major decision made on my own, a mistake as Velevra tells me he would have opposed this as well).
To avoid giving Czechoslovakia an unfair advantage, all nations were informed that this was an acceptable practice as it was not technically recruitment.
Three days later several complaints were lodged, and while many were general, one was potent as it pointed out that we should not be influencing users before they have even created an account.
As such, the Czechs were asked immediately to take down the reference and they complied, as well as were accepting of any punishment.
After deliberation, the HO could find no blame to give to the Czechs, and instead the blame is on me for my ignorance in the situation and lack of consultation with my fellow commissioners.

tl;dr like velevra said, I fucked up
Thought of it more of an advisory situation then one with the weight that it did

Oof

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**OrbitingDeath** · 08-17-2019, 02:03 PM

08-16-2019, 07:00 PMAce Wrote: What a dumb rule lmao.

"You must only post messages to recruit people in a section of the forum that no one ever looks at."

Exactly that lol. Like one would see it before creating for the first time.

Give 1st years free transfers or something , than the forum can have some use.

***goldenglutes*** · 08-17-2019, 08:31 PM

08-17-2019, 02:03 PMOrbitingDeath Wrote: Give 1st years free transfers

yes

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**OrbitingDeath** · 08-23-2019, 08:18 AM

@Velevra see above suggestion. Would that something that could be looked at.
This way it won't be too important when creating your player, and we can get the rookie mentors introduce them to the IIHF Recruitment forums, where specific needs can be posted

ztevans · 08-23-2019, 08:28 AM

08-23-2019, 08:18 AMOrbitingDeath Wrote: @Velevra see above suggestion. Would that something that could be looked at.
This way it won't be too important when creating your player, and we can get the rookie mentors introduce them to the IIHF Recruitment forums, where specific needs can be posted

I'm not Velevra but I don't think I follow the suggestion. There's already a transfer system in place. What would be special about a "free" transfer for first-years you are proposing?

**OrbitingDeath** · 08-23-2019, 09:22 AM

08-23-2019, 08:28 AMztevans Wrote:
08-23-2019, 08:18 AMOrbitingDeath Wrote: @Velevra see above suggestion. Would that something that could be looked at.
This way it won't be too important when creating your player, and we can get the rookie mentors introduce them to the IIHF Recruitment forums, where specific needs can be posted

I'm not Velevra but I don't think I follow the suggestion. There's already a transfer system in place. What would be special about a "free" transfer for first-years you are proposing?

Hi not Velevra, hope this clear my idea up a bit:

Currently all countries only have the capped transfers. However, as you might have seen during the reddit draft, i think about 90% of the new players create a new player for either USA or Canada. Most players don't understand that this would have a large influence on their IIHF careers.

By being able to switch for free in their first years, all other IIHF teams can profit from the rookie influx and we could have a healthy pool of players for everyone.
Because at the moment when you first create it is already really overwhelming in what you need to do. Its better that you have to make the choice of IIHF country in your first season while you are getting acustomed to the league, and this would make that happen.

***artermis*** · 08-23-2019, 10:07 AM

08-23-2019, 09:22 AMOrbitingDeath Wrote:
08-23-2019, 08:28 AMztevans Wrote: I'm not Velevra but I don't think I follow the suggestion. There's already a transfer system in place. What would be special about a "free" transfer for first-years you are proposing?

Hi not Velevra, hope this clear my idea up a bit:

Currently all countries only have the capped transfers. However, as you might have seen during the reddit draft, i think about 90% of the new players create a new player for either USA or Canada. Most players don't understand that this would have a large influence on their IIHF careers.

By being able to switch for free in their first years, all other IIHF teams can profit from the rookie influx and we could have a healthy pool of players for everyone.
Because at the moment when you first create it is already really overwhelming in what you need to do. Its better that you have to make the choice of IIHF country in your first season while you are getting acustomed to the league, and this would make that happen.

Ztevans voiced the opinion I voiced in the IIHF HO discord, as some Fed Heads brought it up too.

In my eyes, transfers are allowing a free change to all users while still early enough in their careers but late enough to allow for some time to adjust to the site as a whole, especially the IIHF.

Then, if they wish, they may change nation.

While a completely player-facing system is commendable, we must turn and assess the needs of our Federations as well, hence the limits.

The limits exist so as to prevent a mass exodus (or multiple) from any team as we have seen in the IIHF's first seasons, and to prevent any one team from taking advantage of this mechanic that gives player's mostly free reign on their new destination.

To circumvent the limits, I think, is quite dangerous.

The main point of yours being that you believe there's a strong ignorance among rookies for how the IIHF works, and I can say that improving that has been an objective of the IIHF since it was founded, but it's always been tricky to address it. Either way, tackling it directly is better than tweaking the system further down the line, in my opinion.

**OrbitingDeath** · 08-23-2019, 11:13 AM

I would mainly do it for first-generation players and only in their first year (or even shorter it, but the rookie mentors can help them with it once they are in the discord) to prevent the exodus indeed. But in this case its not the exodus' you would need to worry about as it's only for the new players. Recreates know how it work, but to make a decision based on your first minutes in the league is a bit rough. So hope you find something to help them to make the decision easier.

Velevra · 08-23-2019, 06:56 PM

Artemis touched on it already, it has been previously considered but was determined to ultimately not be the best avenue.

A significant worry would be that all new members drafted to a certain SMJHL team would just all transfer to the nation that has the highest influence on them in their SMJHL LRs. For example everyone on LET would transfer to Japan, everyone on ANA goes to Switzerland, HAL goes to UK etc.

There is also some appeal to having new members join the league, creating say a Russian player with a Russian backstory and then playing for team Russia. If all the new Russian players with Russian names are dispersed throughout different nations it becomes less IIHF and more summer league.

Based on previous research most active members weren't waiting too long to get on IIHF teams unless they were choosing to wait to get on Canada / USA and Canada/USA haven't been extremely dominant under this system. Its also cool to see some nations rise and fall. For example Ireland was one of the worst nations for a while and has now become one of the most dominant. It took time but a good GM can make it happen.

The best solution in our minds is quickly presenting the vital info to newbies (which teams need most players and which teams need what positions).

**esilverm** · 08-23-2019, 07:33 PM

Switzerland is just Anaheim 2.0

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caltroit_red_flames · 08-23-2019, 08:23 PM

08-23-2019, 06:56 PMVelevra Wrote: Artemis touched on it already, it has been previously considered but was determined to ultimately not be the best avenue.

A significant worry would be that all new members drafted to a certain SMJHL team would just all transfer to the nation that has the highest influence on them in their SMJHL LRs. For example everyone on LET would transfer to Japan, everyone on ANA goes to Switzerland, HAL goes to UK etc.

There is also some appeal to having new members join the league, creating say a Russian player with a Russian backstory and then playing for team Russia. If all the new Russian players with Russian names are dispersed throughout different nations it becomes less IIHF and more summer league.

Based on previous research most active members weren't waiting too long to get on IIHF teams unless they were choosing to wait to get on Canada / USA and Canada/USA haven't been extremely dominant under this system. Its also cool to see some nations rise and fall. For example Ireland was one of the worst nations for a while and has now become one of the most dominant. It took time but a good GM can make it happen.

The best solution in our minds is quickly presenting the vital info to newbies (which teams need most players and which teams need what positions).

Didn't think of this, it's a very good point for not allowing transfers during first season

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