Login

***luke*** · 03-15-2024, 06:47 AM

There were 3 players who had #1 votes, Ron Mexico Jason Visser, and Alonzo Garbanzo. Here is the roundtable discussion on why they think who they voted for is the goat

Who is the #1: Mexico, Visser or Garbanzo

Why did you vote for Visser as #1?

@Rich - I'm sure part of it is my bias for the SHL Realism era because I played in it, but also, this era makes up a large portion of our league history. I think he was the best player of this era, but I had to take a hard look at Garbanzo first. For Visser, 3 of the 14 highest scoring seasons in this year, including the 2nd highest scoring season. The only other name to appear more than once in that list is VLAD, who had 2 of the 14. The first of these 3 seasons was S36, the last in S43. Almost his entire career, certainly the most successful seasons, took place after a rule was put in place to cut down on player ice time. His best season was actually one of his lowest TOI seasons. If we had a way to reasonably compare seasons across eras, I think his S41 would stack up against any season.

@JKortesi81 - I've spent the entirety of Joe K's career chasing Jason Visser. We both came in in S31, he got drafted 8th, I was 12th. He won 2 cups, I won 5. He won two MVPs, I only got one. He had 5 seasons with 60+ points. I only could get to 2. He set TPE records. He was one of the best scorers in SHL history, AND he didn't drag out his career for those low TPE "just trying to add to my totals" years. I ended up with 2 more points than he did in our careers, and I played nearly 200 more games. Visser was unbelievable. Garbanzo isn't like, a slouch either. He's one of the most recognizable names in history. Garbanzo has a LOT of impressive numbers like Visser does, he played 258 more games than Visser did, but it didn't translate to as much team success (MIN only won one cup in his time there, S39) as Visser had too. Visser just slightly did more (or just as much) in less time. Again, this was VERY VERY close for a reason. Visser just feels better, albeit slightly.

@luke - Visser only had 2 seasons where he played in a true double shifted era. Playing 28 minutes a night in S36 & S37. He also played 25+ minuts in S39 as well
Garbanzo played 25+ minutes a night from S24->S39 basically. It doesn't make the case irrelevant, but Visser being able to be one of the best forwards in the history of STHS not being double shifted for almost his entire career is worthy for me.

For Visser to have 5 60+ point seasons as well was very impressive. In Modern day SHL(S12-S20 & S25-S52) was only replicated by LPF, VLAD McZ and Randle Randleman. Where VLAD was doing it all while playing 27+ minutes a night. LPF 5/7 was during 27+ Minutes a night, and Randy's impressive 2/6. So only Randle and Visser had most of their 60+ points seasons not during the double shifting era.

Jason Visser also had the most 50+ point seasons during the modern era of STHS (tied with VLAD) with 9 seasons of being over a PPG. Visser is one of 4 people to win the McDonald 3 times in STHS, only a handful of players to lead the league in scoring in STHS, and only 1/6 players to win the Ron Mexico twice in STHS as well. The Final topping of the cake for me is him being almost a PPG in STHS by also playing 950 games played. Only player on par with Visser with games played above 800 GP is Terrance Nova, LPF, and Luke Atmey
however, none has gathered it all together like Jason Visser has done. Especially in the time Jason Visser has done. Other players had parts of it, but Visser had it all
that's of course, not to take away from Garbanzo at all. He is the best defenseman of all time. and i totally get the argument of him being #1. All of the Scott Stevens nominations and wins. I just think from where I am at, Jason Visser has done what no other forward in the league has done.

@WannabeFinn - I voted Visser 1st but could have just as easily put Garbanzo there. Frankly it came down to how impressed I was at the time and in the years since at his record breaking TPE totals. He was a freak on the ice because he was an absolute FREAK in the gym, so to speak.

Why did you vote for Garbanzo as #1?

@RomanesEuntDomus - There are many great players in SHL history, but nobody dominated both his position and his era as much as Garbanzo did. He has the numbers both in terms of peak performance and longevity, and unlike so many other stats who have lost some of their meaning due to the league progressing through different eras, his have stood the test of time.

@Muerto - Garbanzo because he had such a long stretch of dominance and 10 times Stevens noms and 5 wins and he is just so far ahead of every other defenseman when it comes to career stats and awards. No matter how good a career any other defenseman has ever had, they can't even argue that they are on the same level.

@Tomen - Voted Garb #1 because his trophy case and numbers are just absurd compared to the other defenders eligible. I think the gap between him and the 2nd best defender is just way bigger than Visser's to the 2nd best forward and this made me vote Garb #1.

Why did you vote for Mexico as #1?

@Leafs4ever - Ron Mexico was the best player in his era every season he took the ice. He dominated every game and swept the awards because of it. 14 seasons, 13 awards, 16 nominations, 2 Challenge Cups. The MVP trophy is named after him for a reason. In an era not marked by huge TPE gains, he rose above everyone else.

@JayWhy - Mexico often suffers from being so long ago, but there's a context needed to appreciate him. He was there from the start, in a time that to earn a week of training often took writing thousands of words in an article. He was a pioneer within the league, and somebody who had a major impact in a way that someone like Visser or Garbanzo had. If the TPE available was equal to that available in their eras, he would likely have been a 2000 tpe earner. He was a productive player in every way, and was a mainstay in every MVP discussion. He won or was nominated for MVP in more seasons than most players in that era played for. It takes a lot to be there at the start and be extremely impactful, and for Mexico it's a person who underwent significant change throughout his entire career as the league had to find it's footing, and still was able to be a consistent force through it all. He deserves all the praise in the world for that commitment, dedication and success.

*puolivalmiste* · 03-15-2024, 07:46 AM

Thanks for sharing these, interesting to see how the opinions spread among voters, specially when we have people playing on such different eras.

Thank you @luke, and everyone else involved, for all hard work you put into this. Been very insightful view to leagues history.

Navigation

Extra Menu

About us