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+--- Thread: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem (/showthread.php?tid=122639)
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - ACapitalChicago - 03-09-2022
03-09-2022, 10:53 AMRankle Wrote:03-09-2022, 10:48 AMGeekusoid Wrote: SHL tpe cap when?
(I'm kidding. Don't lynch me)
bring back capped and uncapped TPE
:denied:
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - SlashACM - 03-09-2022
question: is the team that exploited the meta over there as hated as the one that did here?
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - OrbitingDeath - 03-09-2022
03-09-2022, 11:20 AMSlashACM Wrote: question: is the team that exploited the meta over there as hated as the one that did here?
yes
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - trella - 03-09-2022
Really cool idea from them. Hopefully it works out
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - luke - 03-09-2022
Also don’t they run like 2 lines 2 dpairings too?
But interesting concept, hope it works out for them. But it could also just be the same old same old as well
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - LordBirdman - 03-09-2022
Do people enjoy the VHL? Is it better than here?
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - caltroit_red_flames - 03-09-2022
03-09-2022, 10:13 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:As one of the league's volunteer software engineers I can tell you that it's not up to HO, the owners, or the commissioner. It's a matter of how much time we have available in our lives outside of work, sleep, school, and spending time with our families.03-09-2022, 09:49 AMPatty Wrote: I have to imagine their solution is partly possible due to their update portal. Minimizing players and updaters actually having to deal with / calculate the ratios.
I know the people in charge have a looooot on their plate in this league, but I have been wondering for a while now why we aren't more interested in pursuing a similar solution to help automate our updating process. Maybe we could even get access to their system and apply it to our own purposes.
@esilverm is a college student that comes and goes every so often due to IRL stuff
@luke is incredibly active but he specializes in big data and doesn't have the database or frontend experience required to work on our stuff (although he's a great resource for this stuff).
@kenvald does great work and helps when he can <3
@DrunkenTeddy specializes in PHP but he's great at doing changes to already created pages and components"
@Talls was doing great work like Kenvald but then he got cancelled over a discord wedding
@grok is a database admin which is vital to getting projects started and for specific updates but one it's started and off the ground most of the work falls on the frontend and API.
I'm working on the banking system and trading cards.
So I get it. People want improvements. We're working on them. But that ragtag team of people is already doing thousands of dollars worth of work on a volunteer basis.
I'm not mad btw, I know you're talking about of all of this in good faith, but just know that we're working on it. Update platform is up next.
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - Sean - 03-09-2022
I tried to pitch something similar but obviously much less thought out when the STHS meta was broken. It was already the popular choice to move to FHM at that point so it didn't gain much traction.
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - Thunfish - 03-12-2022
03-09-2022, 01:53 PMLordBirdman Wrote: Do people enjoy the VHL? Is it better than here?
I wouldn't really say better or worse, to be honest. I do recommend it, overall, but if you had to compare it with the SHL, I'd say it's a different thing and that we could actually benefit from doing inter-league games somehow for funsies in the off-season.
The userbase is really nice, media is given way more relevance (and open-mindedness, which I dig) and its automatic side is really cool even after you're used to it. That said, your playing career is ridiculously short and you usually don't spend much time in any team, so it's hard to really create any connection with anyone in terms of teams - it's not like they don't try it even, it's just that the seasons fly so fast that you're not gonna be there for more than a year. It's hard to really gel with folks in your team. I think I've only remembered the name of the GMs I played under, the one guy who did a Quidditch thing and the guy I owe Portuguese classes to.
Now, if you could get a league that gives more of a shit to media, ran on FHM, and didn't give you such short careers, that'd be a banger.
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - SpartanGibbles - 03-12-2022
03-09-2022, 10:53 AMRankle Wrote:03-09-2022, 10:48 AMGeekusoid Wrote: SHL tpe cap when?
(I'm kidding. Don't lynch me)
bring back capped and uncapped TPE
![[Image: giphy.gif?cid=790b76112394852c37d501dad5...y.gif&ct=g]](https://media1.giphy.com/media/vPhjwW82ElgxG/giphy.gif?cid=790b76112394852c37d501dad5c6cb4c463fbc7f715c3442&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - Accka - 03-13-2022
I actually brought this up already at https://simulationhockey.com/showthread....pid3185457
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - SlashACM - 03-13-2022
03-13-2022, 11:34 AMAccka Wrote: I actually brought this up already at https://simulationhockey.com/showthread....pid3185457
Link broken, can you send another one
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - Spartan - 03-15-2022
03-09-2022, 10:37 AMTomen Wrote: I think the concept of Hybrid attributes is a decent/good one but their version of it is already quite flawed from a first look at it. One only needs to spend 1356 TPE to hit a build with: 93DF&SC while having 69 PA and SK at 57 for the decision making attributes. Having SK and PA as standalone hybrid attributes is a mistake and they should have somehow tied PA more together with DF.It was mentioned earlier but I don't think anyone is going to hit a 1356 TPE build in the VHL. Our depreciation hits a % of every attribute, not a % of your total TPE. Our banked TPE doesn't get depreciated, therefore banking is crucial to being able to fight off our depreciations. I would anticipate a max build of maybe 1050-1100 for someone who is super, super tryhard.
In addition, SK and PA are stand-alone attributes in addition to being combined with other attributes. PA exists solely as PA, but is also directly tied to the most "efficient" SC source. This was made to allow for pass-first builds to exist, as only Offensive Vision (.30 PA and .30 SC) would mean SC = PA. We have two other sources of SC (at .12 ratios), so we needed another source of PA. SK exists on its own, but is also paired up with PH (.36 PH, .12 SK) and DF (.18 DF, .18 SK). Our purpose was to provide options in builds while also limiting the potential of game-breaking PA/SC min-maxing - which our system has done with our engine's version and sliders from the tests we performed.
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - Stadacona - 03-15-2022
03-09-2022, 10:18 AMPatty Wrote:03-09-2022, 10:04 AMGCool Wrote: But they aren't added into the sim until a new whole number is hit -- so that could be easily automated in the updating tools, no?You're probably right about the updating side of it. A little complicated feels like an understatement. I saw in the thread VHL has had this idea floating around in some form for like 3 years? Our scale being 1-20, our "meta" being more complicated than max this, don't touch that. Also makes it a not really 1 to 1 thing. It's an idea worth thinking about though.
Not really the point, not like we can do that kind of thing, just wanted to ask. I really like this idea. Despite it appearing a little complicated on the surface, it's way better than picking a new game to play.
Re: the 3 years thing.
I built the initial testing spreadsheet in February 2019 after Beaviss and I had a conversation and brought it to the commishes at the time. It was shot down pretty quickly then and only reintroduced in early January of this year. So realistically only 2 months of actual work, but yes you're correct in that it was floating in the back of my head for three years.
RE: Another leagues perspective: How the VHL is trying to fix its meta problem - Tomen - 03-15-2022
03-15-2022, 04:32 PMSpartan Wrote:Yes I saw the ratios since I used the spreadsheet tool. As I mentioned in another reply maybe the engine you use + your sliders do a good enough job of suppressing the PA/SC maxing I just found it surprising you chose to pair SK with DF once but not PA considering that PA has been shown to be a much weaker attribute than SK. So from a balancing standpoint that decision surprised me. Obviously you also want to give the option to having players building how they want but strategy wise I would have just grouped the weakest attributes together with the strongest attributes (apart from SC). So you'd pair SK and PA with DF once and maybe PH too but I am just talking from the POV of the tests that I had done with the SHL sliders and engine.03-09-2022, 10:37 AMTomen Wrote: I think the concept of Hybrid attributes is a decent/good one but their version of it is already quite flawed from a first look at it. One only needs to spend 1356 TPE to hit a build with: 93DF&SC while having 69 PA and SK at 57 for the decision making attributes. Having SK and PA as standalone hybrid attributes is a mistake and they should have somehow tied PA more together with DF.It was mentioned earlier but I don't think anyone is going to hit a 1356 TPE build in the VHL. Our depreciation hits a % of every attribute, not a % of your total TPE. Our banked TPE doesn't get depreciated, therefore banking is crucial to being able to fight off our depreciations. I would anticipate a max build of maybe 1050-1100 for someone who is super, super tryhard.
In addition, SK and PA are stand-alone attributes in addition to being combined with other attributes. PA exists solely as PA, but is also directly tied to the most "efficient" SC source. This was made to allow for pass-first builds to exist, as only Offensive Vision (.30 PA and .30 SC) would mean SC = PA. We have two other sources of SC (at .12 ratios), so we needed another source of PA. SK exists on its own, but is also paired up with PH (.36 PH, .12 SK) and DF (.18 DF, .18 SK). Our purpose was to provide options in builds while also limiting the potential of game-breaking PA/SC min-maxing - which our system has done with our engine's version and sliders from the tests we performed.