04-04-2022, 11:55 AMhonkerrs Wrote: please add 4th lines so then we can hear complaints from same people about too many IAs in the J

04-04-2022, 11:21 AMFuzzSHL Wrote: The SHL has not had 4 lines since I've been on the site, which was Dec 2018. The main complaints are, as you said, "bad player experience," and people "not wanting to play 4th line minutes."

04-04-2022, 12:05 PMTomen Wrote:

04-04-2022, 11:21 AMFuzzSHL Wrote: The SHL has not had 4 lines since I've been on the site, which was Dec 2018. The main complaints are, as you said, "bad player experience," and people "not wanting to play 4th line minutes."

Just came here to say this statement is wrong since we had 4th lines during STHS. Now most teams rather used that line to double shift players but some teams like NOLA ,the team which drafted you that season ,actually had a unique player playing the 4th line.

I also highly doubt any first gen would actively choose being a SHL 4th liner that gets 5 to 8 minutes of average game time vs being a 2nd year or 3rd year senddown getting prime top 6 F/top 4D minutes in the J. Some recreates like in the past during STHS would rather play on the 4th line to accumulate some albeit miserable stats to boost their career total.

04-04-2022, 11:34 AMFuzzSHL Wrote: Even with Newfoundland, their focus wasn't and isn't on winning. Their winning is a byproduct of their focus on their culture, locker room environment, and helping out first gens as much as humanly possible. Their focus on development is the key reason they are winning the way that they are. I do think you'll see a team here and there go a bit too "all in" in pursuit of winning, but 9 times out of 10 you aren't going to see that in the J.

04-04-2022, 12:01 PMFuzzSHL Wrote:

04-04-2022, 11:55 AMhonkerrs Wrote: please add 4th lines so then we can hear complaints from same people about too many IAs in the J

Idk if you just glossed over my responses or what but I legit just said that 4 lines right now wouldn't work because of the activity level of the J currently. Pre-expansion it would have worked, but not right now.

04-04-2022, 12:28 PMsköldpaddor Wrote:

04-04-2022, 11:34 AMFuzzSHL Wrote: Even with Newfoundland, their focus wasn't and isn't on winning. Their winning is a byproduct of their focus on their culture, locker room environment, and helping out first gens as much as humanly possible. Their focus on development is the key reason they are winning the way that they are. I do think you'll see a team here and there go a bit too "all in" in pursuit of winning, but 9 times out of 10 you aren't going to see that in the J.

suuuper agree with this. I see people all the time referring to Newfoundland as "hamilton junior" or whatever and I really think that has the incredibly undesirable side effect of making it seem like they are identical situations because of a similar symptom (oh no, one team is winning everything all the time and it's not fun for the rest of us). imo, Newfoundland is dominant because they are both good at FHM and extremely good at the other GM stuff like drafting well, signing free agents, and keeping those players active and engaged. This is one of my pet peeves here too because that second set of stuff is the stuff that should factor in heavily when it comes to a team being dominant. Equating the HAM/NL situations is detrimental to having a productive conversation about either league.

04-04-2022, 12:28 PMsköldpaddor Wrote:

04-04-2022, 11:34 AMFuzzSHL Wrote: Even with Newfoundland, their focus wasn't and isn't on winning. Their winning is a byproduct of their focus on their culture, locker room environment, and helping out first gens as much as humanly possible. Their focus on development is the key reason they are winning the way that they are. I do think you'll see a team here and there go a bit too "all in" in pursuit of winning, but 9 times out of 10 you aren't going to see that in the J.

suuuper agree with this. I see people all the time referring to Newfoundland as "hamilton junior" or whatever and I really think that has the incredibly undesirable side effect of making it seem like they are identical situations because of a similar symptom (oh no, one team is winning everything all the time and it's not fun for the rest of us). imo, Newfoundland is dominant because they are both good at FHM and extremely good at the other GM stuff like drafting well, signing free agents, and keeping those players active and engaged. This is one of my pet peeves here too because that second set of stuff is the stuff that should factor in heavily when it comes to a team being dominant. Equating the HAM/NL situations is detrimental to having a productive conversation about either league.

I think the current free agent situation in the J is (again, in my personal opinion) contributing to the fact that we don't see a lot of teams follow the natural life cycle you'd expect to see in a developmental league. I don't think that's the only reason we're seeing this parity issue in the J but I do think it is a big factor because it lets teams completely opt out of drafting if they want to. That has a two-fold effect of making it so that it doesn't even matter how we hand out draft picks or decide them based on season standings because it just doesn't impact a dominant team that much if they have low draft picks or no draft picks at all when they can just find a free agent to make up for it. None of the measures we take to maintain parity - playoff seeding, draft lottery, draft order based on standings make a significant difference when you can build half a team outside of the draft with no limitations or cost associated other than a budget cap that even my math-challenged self manages to work under with minimal effort. All changing the TPE cap is going to do is make it so that those teams who are already good at this are even better.

04-04-2022, 01:34 PMGooney Wrote:

04-04-2022, 12:28 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: suuuper agree with this. I see people all the time referring to Newfoundland as "hamilton junior" or whatever and I really think that has the incredibly undesirable side effect of making it seem like they are identical situations because of a similar symptom (oh no, one team is winning everything all the time and it's not fun for the rest of us). imo, Newfoundland is dominant because they are both good at FHM and extremely good at the other GM stuff like drafting well, signing free agents, and keeping those players active and engaged. This is one of my pet peeves here too because that second set of stuff is the stuff that should factor in heavily when it comes to a team being dominant. Equating the HAM/NL situations is detrimental to having a productive conversation about either league.

I think the current free agent situation in the J is (again, in my personal opinion) contributing to the fact that we don't see a lot of teams follow the natural life cycle you'd expect to see in a developmental league. I don't think that's the only reason we're seeing this parity issue in the J but I do think it is a big factor because it lets teams completely opt out of drafting if they want to. That has a two-fold effect of making it so that it doesn't even matter how we hand out draft picks or decide them based on season standings because it just doesn't impact a dominant team that much if they have low draft picks or no draft picks at all when they can just find a free agent to make up for it. None of the measures we take to maintain parity - playoff seeding, draft lottery, draft order based on standings make a significant difference when you can build half a team outside of the draft with no limitations or cost associated other than a budget cap that even my math-challenged self manages to work under with minimal effort. All changing the TPE cap is going to do is make it so that those teams who are already good at this are even better.

the reasons you listed newfoundland being dominants sounds an awful a lot like why hamilton has been dominant. my god you’ve been guzzling down the hammy bad juice. i’ve felt it non stop since recreating. open your eyes lol

04-04-2022, 01:35 PMsköldpaddor Wrote:

04-04-2022, 01:34 PMGooney Wrote: the reasons you listed newfoundland being dominants sounds an awful a lot like why hamilton has been dominant. my god you’ve been guzzling down the hammy bad juice. i’ve felt it non stop since recreating. open your eyes lol

I said they're completely different conversations, please keep your insults to yourself.

04-04-2022, 01:37 PMGooney Wrote:

04-04-2022, 01:35 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: I said they're completely different conversations, please keep your insults to yourself.

they sound awfully similar to me

04-04-2022, 01:40 PMsköldpaddor Wrote:

04-04-2022, 01:37 PMGooney Wrote: they sound awfully similar to me

The conversation about SHL parity has numerous factors that are not even relevant in the J. Decisions at the SHL level have longer-lasting impact, the landscape doesn't change as quickly, there are multiple other things that come into play (especially in free agency) in the SHL that are completely different from the way the juniors life cycle plays out. I've said nothing unkind about you or your team, so if you want to have a civil discussion with me feel free but multiple replies to dunk on me and accuse me of "guzzling" things is not super necessary.

04-04-2022, 01:43 PMGooney Wrote:

04-04-2022, 01:40 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: The conversation about SHL parity has numerous factors that are not even relevant in the J. Decisions at the SHL level have longer-lasting impact, the landscape doesn't change as quickly, there are multiple other things that come into play (especially in free agency) in the SHL that are completely different from the way the juniors life cycle plays out. I've said nothing unkind about you or your team, so if you want to have a civil discussion with me feel free but multiple replies to dunk on me and accuse me of "guzzling" things is not super necessary.

ohh sorry. it just looked like you were implying that hammy doesn’t win because of good sim knowledge/drafting well/strong locker room but more because of magical reasons. my bad