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+---- Thread: Regression Compensation (/showthread.php?tid=8951)
- Jesster - 06-12-2012
Quote:Originally posted by ♕Wadey♕™@Jun 12 2012, 07:52 PM
Makes no sense, every player who regressed in the old scale got those points back in the re-distribution process. We made this so everyone would be on an even playing field, can't really change that now.
Anything that happened in the old system should be totally unrelated to what we have now.
I'll just go retire and start a new so that it can make sense for you and we can forget the past.
- Wadester - 06-12-2012
Quote:Originally posted by Jesster@Jun 12 2012, 08:15 PM
I'll just go retire and start a new so that it can make sense for you and we can forget the past.
:(
You were on an equal playing field in comparison to everyone else at the time. I know it's had adverse effects but look at the boost it gave you now. The S1/S2 players got a nice boost with the new system with regression pushed back and their pts back imo.
I don't see what would be any kind of fair to do now after you got those pts back and it's something totally unrelated to the present SHL it's based on past seasons.
Still :wub: you Jesster
- Jesster - 06-12-2012
Quote:Originally posted by ♕Wadey♕™@Jun 12 2012, 08:44 PM
:(
You were on an equal playing field in comparison to everyone else at the time. I know it's had adverse effects but look at the boost it gave you now. The S1/S2 players got a nice boost with the new system with regression pushed back and their pts back imo.
I don't see what would be any kind of fair to do now after you got those pts back and it's something totally unrelated to the present SHL it's based on past seasons.
Still :wub: you Jesster
My point is just because it was in the past scale doesn't make it irrelevant.
We were on equal footing when I was 2 seasons regressed? How so? Those were my worst seasons statistically.
- NateyD - 06-22-2012
This got swept aside with not much consideration. It makes a ton of sense. Essentially we only get to play 6 or 7 seasons without regression, since we regressed early.
All other players get to play 8 seasons since regression changed after those 2 seasons.
Seems like a fair compensation.
- xDParK - 06-23-2012
Quote:Originally posted by NathanAD@Jun 22 2012, 09:45 PM
This got swept aside with not much consideration. It makes a ton of sense. Essentially we only get to play 6 or 7 seasons without regression, since we regressed early.
All other players get to play 8 seasons since regression changed after those 2 seasons.
Seems like a fair compensation.
- Obsidian311 - 06-23-2012
Just skip the 2 seasons of regression and then hit them with all 3 seasons worth in the 3rd season. That way they get the 2 regression season stats back but still lose the same points as they would have lost in regression.
- Spangle - 06-23-2012
This makes a lot of sense to me. Basically, regression wouldn't start for anybody until before S11 (rather than before S9 for the S1ers). I actually like this. The S1 and S2 players were at a disadvantage for those two seasons and now we get to "repay" them for those years.
- Aaron "AAA" Allen - 06-23-2012
Like I said before, i am fine with there being someway to repay these players, but you need to also understand how this affects all the other players in this league.
If SHL vet's get no regression until S11, then all those NWJHL players looking for active roles will likely have to wait longer, leading to potentially more inactivity and considering this is one of our best rookie seasons we have had in awhile, we will have more players looking for active roles then other seasons.
Think about it, that starting goalie position that would be available soon is now 3-4 seasons away, or that guy who has already played 2 seasons on the 3rd line, now has to wait another 2 seasons because the 1st liners aren't hitting regression and retiring.
For the Vets this would rock and if i was one of them i would be all over this, but as a NWJHL player looking for a place to play, this is not good news if it happens.
An option (to appease both sides) would be to have expansion, do as you have indicated, but have other teams available for the new crop of rookies over the next 2 years to play active roles on, this keeps both groups happy.
I know it is not ideal, because some teams don't have alot of activity, but it was the only solution i could think of right now.
Hopefully something can worked out that make it work for everyone in the league.
- RomanesEuntDomus - 06-23-2012
I still think this isn't necessary at all. The S1 and S2 players had the advantage of never having to play against older more developed guys, they got a chance to dominate in the league from their first season on, since there were no veterans yet. This hasn't been possible for players who joined after that and I think that totally makes up for having to play two seasons under the effects of regression.
Edit: Also, what Heiss said
- Jesster - 06-23-2012
Quote:Originally posted by OcAirlines@Jun 23 2012, 12:36 PM
I still think this isn't necessary at all. The S1 and S2 players had the advantage of never having to play against older more developed guys, they got a chance to dominate in the league from their first season on, since there were no veterans yet. This hasn't been possible for players who joined after that and I think that totally makes up for having to play two seasons under the effects of regression.
Edit: Also, what Heiss said
I don't get it, we get penalized for founding the league? Did people think this about the first crop of NHL players? Or any sports league for that matter? There are plenty of top tier caliber young guys that have come in the league since S1 and S2. The sim doesn't automatically make a player with X amount of points better than someone who has slightly less.
- NateyD - 06-23-2012
Quote:Originally posted by OcAirlines@Jun 23 2012, 12:36 PM
I still think this isn't necessary at all. The S1 and S2 players had the advantage of never having to play against older more developed guys, they got a chance to dominate in the league from their first season on, since there were no veterans yet. This hasn't been possible for players who joined after that and I think that totally makes up for having to play two seasons under the effects of regression.
Edit: Also, what Heiss said
Look at the stats, S1 and S2 players aren't really dominating the league either way, many of them are retired, inactive, etc.
- RomanesEuntDomus - 06-23-2012
Quote:Originally posted by Jesster+Jun 23 2012, 06:40 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jesster @ Jun 23 2012, 06:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I don't get it, we get penalized for founding the league? Did people think this about the first crop of NHL players? Or any sports league for that matter? There are plenty of top tier caliber young guys that have come in the league since S1 and S2. The sim doesn't automatically make a player with X amount of points better than someone who has slightly less.[/b]
No, the thing is: You want a compensation because you had to play two seasons under the effect of (pretty small) regression, but now regression is pushed back with the re-distribution and even though your regression now kicks in later, you had to play two seasons under those negative effects. And that's a very legit issue that I won't deny.
But on the other hand, you guys also got to play in two seasons (S1 and S2) where you had a big advantage over what guys had that started let's say in S5 or S6. You got to score 40 points or be a Top-Goalie right from your Rookie year on, while this isn't possible anymore.
Pretty much every Rookie today starts on the bottom-lines for his teams, or doesn't even get to play in the SHL at all. Goalies are relegated to backup-duty or even have to spend another 1-2 seaons in the NWJHL. That's totally fine, it's good that you have to work your way up. But back then you guys didn't have to face those obstacles. While players that join right now look at 2-3 seasons of hard work before they can be impact players for their team, the S1 and S2 players got that chance right away.
So for two seasons with slight disadvantages, you also experienced to seasons with pretty big advantages compared to what new players face today. And I think the one thing totally makes up for the other.
Edit:
<!--QuoteBegin-NathanAD@Jun 23 2012, 06:41 PM
Look at the stats, S1 and S2 players aren't really dominating the league either way, many of them are retired, inactive, etc.[/quote]
I'm not talking about S1 and S2 players performances today, but the situation they found themselves in back in their first seasons. Basically, if a player joins today and decides to play for 10 seasons, he maybe gets like 6-7 seasons where he is one of the better guys in the league. A player who started in S1, basically has 10 of those seasons, if he worked hard from the beginning.
- Jesster - 06-23-2012
Quote:Originally posted by OcAirlines@Jun 23 2012, 12:48 PMThank you.
No, the thing is: You want a compensation because you had to play two seasons under the effect of (pretty small) regression, but now regression is pushed back with the re-distribution and even though your regression now kicks in later, you had to play two seasons under those negative effects. And that's a very legit issue that I won't deny.
Quote:But on the other hand, you guys also got to play in two seasons (S1 and S2) where you had a big advantage over what guys had that started let's say in S5 or S6. You got to score 40 points or be a Top-Goalie right from your Rookie year on, while this isn't possible anymore.Yes it is, in your 5th and 6th season I'm sure you will be "dominating" over the rookies coming in those years as well. I don't see the validity of this point, there will always be new guys coming in who are not as "developed" as your player.
Quote:Pretty much every Rookie today starts on the bottom-lines for his teams, or doesn't even get to play in the SHL at all. Goalies are relegated to backup-duty or even have to spend another 1-2 seaons in the NWJHL. That's totally fine, it's good that you have to work your way up. But back then you guys didn't have to face those obstacles. While players that join right now look at 2-3 seasons of hard work before they can be impact players for their team, the S1 and S2 players got that chance right away.I "worked" hella hard to build my player up right from the beginning, sure I didn't compete for the top spot (although I think there were a 1-2 teams that yielded two goalies). I was still competing with other goalies in the league, other teams, other players. We shouldn't be penalized for being the first ones who built the league up as players.
Quote:So for two seasons with slight disadvantages, you also experienced to seasons with pretty big advantages compared to what new players face today. And I think the one thing totally makes up for the other.I still don't see how I have any more advantage over someone who will be playing in their 8th season down the road and have 7 drafts of new batches of players coming into the SHL. You will eventually be the top old dog of your time as well, again what is the difference?
Quote:Honcho out performed me for several seasons and he came before me. I've had goalies come and have better seasons than I had throughout my career, especially in Season 5-6 (coincidently regression was hitting me then). I'm just one example, and as a skater you can probably point out several examples for most guys of having people out perform them.
I'm not talking about S1 and S2 players performances today, but the situation they found themselves in back in their first seasons. Basically, if a player joins today and decides to play for 10 seasons, he maybe gets like 6-7 seasons where he is one of the better guys in the league. A player who started in S1, basically has 10 of those seasons, if he worked hard from the beginning.
- Checkmate - 06-25-2012
PUSH REGRESSION BACK, SAVE OLD MAN PAVOL!
- mexico.27 - 06-25-2012
So is this happening or what?