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***WannabeFinn*** · 01-13-2023, 11:43 AM

For the record the overall goalie conversation has been an ongoing topic in HO for many seasons now and continues to be. We’re looking at different options.

Not going to come out and promise anything but just making it known that it’s something we are actively working to address among our other projects and such.

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 01-13-2023, 11:49 AM

Have there been discussions about a steeper update scale for goalies, so that the difference between a high and a low TPE-Goalie is bigger attribute wise than it is now, or would that still not make a difference in terms of performance? Maybe goalies just neet a "flatter" update scale, one that starts harsher than the one for Skaters but is less harsh towards the end. This would essentially leave us with weaker low-TPE goalies and stronger high-TPE ones.

***RAmenAmen*** · 01-13-2023, 12:38 PM

01-13-2023, 11:49 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Have there been discussions about a steeper update scale for goalies, so that the difference between a high and a low TPE-Goalie is bigger attribute wise than it is now, or would that still not make a difference in terms of performance? Maybe goalies just neet a "flatter" update scale, one that starts harsher than the one for Skaters but is less harsh towards the end. This would essentially leave us with weaker low-TPE goalies and stronger high-TPE ones.

Smells like stinky testing to me Angry

I've also thought about this idea though, and I'd really love to know if the actual sim engine backs it up. The problem, of course, is that someone *would* need to test this on an SHL-like file, something that I hope would be done and the results published for the site to see. This is something that I'd love to help with if HO is looking for a sucker an enthusiastic user to help out with on an as-needed basis, building out the actual experiment and getting the results. If this is something that's already happening behind the scenes, it'd be great if we could hear the type of investigation being done, since this is a topic lots of us have ideas and opinions on, and the community clearly wants to help make the goalie position one that's both rewarding and contributing to the team.

**_Blitz_** · 01-13-2023, 01:55 PM

I feel like goalies rely a lot on the average TPE of the teams around them and that they face. For example, goalies in the J have more noticeable performance gaps between 155, 350, and 425 because the applied TPE range is smaller.

The SHL is more random for goalies because the range is wider (155-2200+), but in looking at the numbers, the average of the best goalies since S53 (determined by award noms for simplicity) is just shy of 1500 TPE while most winners are between 1350 and 1650 TPE. I think if we wanted true goalie parity, it would be worth investigating the effect of moving to a max applied cap and minimum TPE for skaters.

If that seems extreme, cutting goalie cap hits in half or nulling them below 1200 TPE (rough league average) would be the methods to look at. At least, in my opinion.

***hockeyiscool*** · 01-13-2023, 08:31 PM

01-13-2023, 01:55 PM_Blitz_ Wrote: I feel like goalies rely a lot on the average TPE of the teams around them and that they face. For example, goalies in the J have more noticeable performance gaps between 155, 350, and 425 because the applied TPE range is smaller.

The SHL is more random for goalies because the range is wider (155-2200+), but in looking at the numbers, the average of the best goalies since S53 (determined by award noms for simplicity) is just shy of 1500 TPE while most winners are between 1350 and 1650 TPE. I think if we wanted true goalie parity, it would be worth investigating the effect of moving to a max applied cap and minimum TPE for skaters.

If that seems extreme, cutting goalie cap hits in half or nulling them below 1200 TPE (rough league average) would be the methods to look at. At least, in my opinion.

Goalies do matter, although the team you are on and their style of play does matter. I believe the Goalie TPE and build distribution does matter at the J level a bit more than at the SHL level. Once goalies are in the range of 1100+ and key attributes are all about the same. the differences are lessened. Putting TPE above that point is similar to how I've been told player builds were on the SimonT sim engine. You hit ~1100-1300 TPE and your player is maxed and the rest is to fight regression.

Duff101 · 01-13-2023, 08:46 PM

While I’m not as familiar with 8 as I was with 6, I imagine its at least somewhat similar. In my experience, goalie TPE and builds matter more in the sense of being not shitty rather than the sense of, say turning your player elite. I think part of the problem is inherent to the position, unlike a skater there’s really only one thing to improve at when it comes down to it, really a pretty limited variety in ways you can play within the limits of a sim engine. I don’t think the nuances of the goalie position translate well to an online sim or at least this specific one.

I like how EHM does goalies a lot more

Credit to Geck, Ragnar and Juni for sigs

***HabsFanFromOntario*** · 09-08-2023, 11:55 AM

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