1. Expansion is a good thing, it will be temporary or permanent depending on the activity level in the next seasons.
2. I was on the 4th line my rookie season because my team was deep depth wise. The biggest factor in retention rate I think is 2 main things. The locker rooms you are in and how well you are doing in the sim. For me personally a strong Czech Locker room and a strong whalers discord kept me interested in the SHL. Even though I only put up 14 points while other rookies I knew were getting 20+ it was that I was having fun and I had hope for next season to do better. Staying engaged and talking to people I think has kept a ton of people from quitting the site. Keep people invested into the team is also a good way.
3. As a gm you have to find a good balance of keeping your team competitive and giving ice team around. And it’s difficult process because you want rookies to do stuff so they keep on updating and having fun, and you also want to win because you want people to be happy about your team. I know for Halifax people were getting frustrated when they had a really good team but still failed to show up for it in the sim.
12-28-2018, 11:39 AM(This post was last modified: 12-28-2018, 11:40 AM by RomanesEuntDomus.)
12-28-2018, 11:36 AMluketd Wrote: Sure I’ll give my quick thoughts on this.
1. Expansion is a good thing, it will be temporary or permanent depending on the activity level in the next seasons.
2. I was on the 4th line my rookie season because my team was deep depth wise. The biggest factor in retention rate I think is 2 main things. The locker rooms you are in and how well you are doing in the sim. For me personally a strong Czech Locker room and a strong whalers discord kept me interested in the SHL. Even though I only put up 14 points while other rookies I knew were getting 20+ it was that I was having fun and I had hope for next season to do better. Staying engaged and talking to people I think has kept a ton of people from quitting the site. Keep people invested into the team is also a good way.
3. As a gm you have to find a good balance of keeping your team competitive and giving ice team around. And it’s difficult process because you want rookies to do stuff so they keep on updating and having fun, and you also want to win because you want people to be happy about your team. I know for Halifax people were getting frustrated when they had a really good team but still failed to show up for it in the sim.
Just to add to that last point, I have been in quite a few locker rooms where the players where absolutely fine with one or two high-caliber inactives playing in a bigger role over lower TPE actives because it gave the team as a whole a better chance at winning and thereby made the overall experience more enjoyable for everyone, often even for the guys whose personal ice-time suffered a bit.
12-28-2018, 11:22 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Snipped, go read his dang post.
Pretty much sums up my feelings. I think the greater concern isn't how long in general players stay down, so much as how those expectations are expressed by GMs, both on the SHL and SMJHL side. Recently it's cut heavier on the send-down side, but there have definitely been cases both ways where a guy wasn't ready for the call, got rushed, and went inactive, because they felt pressured to go up. And there are definitely GMs on the J side who have tried a little too hard at times to talk players into staying down, and I'm sure there are SHL GMs who have encouraged the same when they could have called up an active young player for about 15 minutes per game on the third line but wanted to squeeze another season out of an inactive instead.
I think some of these mindsets showed themselves in the draft with the Argar situation, which is why I added to that. Should everyone be expected to spend just two seasons in juniors? No. But clearly some GMs felt it's reasonable to ask for three or more seasons out of a player, and that's a problem *if* they project that expectation on their entire team.
Tl;Dr This is a player driven league so work with the players and give them as much agency as possible. Obviously every team situation is different and so forth, but like try and don't be a dick and everything should work out.
12-28-2018, 12:18 PM(This post was last modified: 12-28-2018, 12:25 PM by O4L.)
12-28-2018, 11:39 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
12-28-2018, 11:36 AMluketd Wrote: Sure I’ll give my quick thoughts on this.
1. Expansion is a good thing, it will be temporary or permanent depending on the activity level in the next seasons.
2. I was on the 4th line my rookie season because my team was deep depth wise. The biggest factor in retention rate I think is 2 main things. The locker rooms you are in and how well you are doing in the sim. For me personally a strong Czech Locker room and a strong whalers discord kept me interested in the SHL. Even though I only put up 14 points while other rookies I knew were getting 20+ it was that I was having fun and I had hope for next season to do better. Staying engaged and talking to people I think has kept a ton of people from quitting the site. Keep people invested into the team is also a good way.
3. As a gm you have to find a good balance of keeping your team competitive and giving ice team around. And it’s difficult process because you want rookies to do stuff so they keep on updating and having fun, and you also want to win because you want people to be happy about your team. I know for Halifax people were getting frustrated when they had a really good team but still failed to show up for it in the sim.
Just to add to that last point, I have been in quite a few locker rooms where the players where absolutely fine with one or two high-caliber inactives playing in a bigger role over lower TPE actives because it gave the team as a whole a better chance at winning and thereby made the overall experience more enjoyable for everyone, often even for the guys whose personal ice-time suffered a bit.
I think this is a good point and I would've agreed with it in other regular seasons but since the SMJHL has gone back to the everyone makes play-offs deal the regular season hardly matters. I don't see a reason for a capped inactive to be playing in front of a rookie first-gen in the regular season anymore and I really don't think the players that have already dominated the SMJHL for over 2 seasons should be playing ahead of them either.
I think it would've helped the league if some capped players were drafted in the expansion draft (not blaming the SMJHL commisioners, I know what it's like to expand on short notice) but right now its looking like there is a huge imbalance in the league where some teams have 7+ capped players that have been in the SMJHL for 2+ seasons and Lethbridge and Anaheim having zero capped players at all.
I'd like to see line restrictions with teams being forced to play at least 2 rookie actives in the top six and top 4 instead of just loading up the top six/top four with capped send-downs esp with everyone making the play-offs again, they can allow teams to load up their top six in the play-offs/last 5 games if they need to.
As a recreate I really don't gaf about my ice-time/point production this season or next but there's probably some first gens rookies that would.
"“HA HA! THIS GAME WILL NEVER END! I POSSESS THE SOUL OF EVERY GOALIE ON TEAM B!! CREW 4 LIFE!! SIGN WITH EDMONTON FOR THE CUP!!!” cackled Belial as he placed a Fedora on his head." SMJHL Commisioner S17-S26 Calgary Dragons GM S14-S23
12-28-2018, 11:39 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Just to add to that last point, I have been in quite a few locker rooms where the players where absolutely fine with one or two high-caliber inactives playing in a bigger role over lower TPE actives because it gave the team as a whole a better chance at winning and thereby made the overall experience more enjoyable for everyone, often even for the guys whose personal ice-time suffered a bit.
I think this is a good point and I would've agreed with it in other regular seasons but since the SMJHL has gone back to the everyone makes play-offs deal the regular season hardly matters. I don't see a reason for a capped inactive to be playing in front of a rookie first-gen in the regular season anymore and I really don't think the players that have already dominated the SMJHL for over 2 seasons should be playing ahead of them either.
I think it would've helped the league if some capped players were drafted in the expansion draft (not blaming the SMJHL commisioners, I know what it's like to expand on short notice) but right now its looking like there is a huge imbalance in the league where some teams have 7+ capped players that have been in the SMJHL for 2+ seasons and Lethbridge and Anaheim having zero capped players at all.
I'd like to see line restrictions with teams being forced to play at least 2 rookie actives in the top six and top 4 instead of just loading up the top six/top four with capped send-downs esp with everyone making the play-offs again, they can allow teams to load up their top six in the play-offs/last 5 games if they need to.
As a recreate I really don't gaf about my ice-time/point production this season or next but there's probably some first gens rookies that would.
Aren't a lot of GMs gonna do that anyway, mixing send-down and recreates that is? I have a hard time believing that many GMs would completely overload their top-six with capped players and then stash everyone else in the bottom-six with minimal ice-time, I'd assume that our GMs are better than that. Especially since, as you mentioned, the regular season won't matter as much this time. It doesn't even need to be seen as a courtesy to the rookies but might actually be the best move line-wise as well, I know quite a few GMs who like to mix two experienced players with one rookie per forward line for example, so it wouldn't surprise me to see some rookies pop up in teams top-6 no matter what. It's something that I would like to see just like you do, I just don't think a rule is necessay to accomplish that.
I don't have any numbers ready but I don't think the inactive issue will be that big of a deal this season anyway because I'd assume that teams have gotten rid of most of their IFAs to make room for rookies and active send-downs. I think my former team has exactly one IFA left and barely any inactive send-downs either and it wouldn't surprise me if it was the same for other teams. My argument about high-caliber inactives making things more fun for their teammates wasn't mainly about the playoffs anyway. Even if the regular season results don't matter as much this season, people will still have more fun if their team does well. Forcing players who aren't ready into top roles and getting thrashed as a result won't be fun, even if the team makes the playoffs anyway. Having high-caliber players throughout the line-up who support the rookies might actually be better for their individual numbers than playing more minutes with weaker linemates as well.
Ultimately, I think our rookies will be fine. Working your way up is part of the process (and the fun) and it goes quite quickly in the SMJHL - much quicker than once you hit the SHL I might add. I think/hope that this league is exciting enough for the new guys that they don't quit if they don't get big ice-time right away. And if people do leave over stuff like that then I doubt they would've stayed long-term anyway. If they can't take a season of working your way up in the SMJHL, then how are they gonna react to potentially being stuck in an SHL-teams bottom-six for years?
Let's just see how expansion goes first please? Before we overreact to an inflated draft class that could just as easily be 50% inactive by the SHL draft.
and seriously, if getting top line minutes immediately is important to you then I just don't really care, cause that's an unrealistic expectation of anyone playing any sort of team competition. If ice time in the sim is driving your enjoyment of this league, you will not likely last.
12-28-2018, 12:59 PMGrapehead Wrote: Let's just see how expansion goes first please? Before we overreact to an inflated draft class that could just as easily be 50% inactive by the SHL draft.
and seriously, if getting top line minutes immediately is important to you then I just don't really care, cause that's an unrealistic expectation of anyone playing any sort of team competition. If ice time in the sim is driving your enjoyment of this league, you will not likely last.
I don’t think anyone’s overreacting here. I’m just bringing up a possible concern that is worthy of discussion.
12-28-2018, 01:14 PM(This post was last modified: 12-28-2018, 01:15 PM by Grapehead.)
12-28-2018, 01:10 PMxDParK Wrote: I don
12-28-2018, 12:59 PMGrapehead Wrote: Let's just see how expansion goes first please? Before we overreact to an inflated draft class that could just as easily be 50% inactive by the SHL draft.
and seriously, if getting top line minutes immediately is important to you then I just don't really care, cause that's an unrealistic expectation of anyone playing any sort of team competition. If ice time in the sim is driving your enjoyment of this league, you will not likely last.
I don’t think anyone’s overreacting here. I’m just bringing up a possible concern that is worthy of discussion.
No no, sorry, you're right. I mean before we overreact. I'm here for the discussion, just think it's something to keep an eye on, but not worthy of making any change at this early stage of the S46 draft class
but also I do think players need to check themselves before expecting primo ice time
I don’t think anyone’s overreacting here. I’m just bringing up a possible concern that is worthy of discussion.
No no, sorry, you're right. I mean before we overreact. I'm here for the discussion, just think it's something to keep an eye on, but not worthy of making any change at this early stage of the S46 draft class
but also I do think players need to check themselves before expecting primo ice time
12-28-2018, 01:27 PM(This post was last modified: 12-28-2018, 01:30 PM by kit.)
Everyone in this thread saying "well i was fine with playing bottom six so its a non-issue" really doesnt see the point, its not about those who would stay active anyway, its about those on the brink who need those extra pushes to really get into the site. imo the biggest issue with the smjhl nowadays is the gms, im not saying they're bad I just think for the most part they've lost sight of what the SMJHL is really about, or they never understood in the first place. A lot of these guys are new and its not really made clear to a lot of new members that the SMJHL is all about keeping new members interested while they build up enough tpe to make it to the show. The fact that argar was drafted so late attests to this, I think any old GM wouldve been ecstatic to have him go up early, as they keep an active in their LR and free up a roster spot to give rookies more time. The smjhl isnt supposed to be like real life, I'm sorry if you want it to be but thats not whats best for the league. Recreates used to go up immediately because the smjhl was too much about the new member and I think that was fine.
Also i think SHL expansion is LOOOONG overdue. And might be due for another one after this one very shortly, or well run into the same problems again. The logjams in the shl are ridiculous and cause a lot of the problems that the smjhl are having right now. Its really unfortunate because I am concerned about a lot of this massive class going inactive, and to say we shouldnt worry about that until it happens is asinine imo smjhl should ALWAYS be concerned with retaining as many members as possible.
EDIT: grapehead clarified so the last part of this post kinda irrelevant
12-28-2018, 01:33 PM(This post was last modified: 12-28-2018, 01:33 PM by Grapehead.)
12-28-2018, 01:27 PMkit Wrote: Everyone in this thread saying "well i was fine with playing bottom six so its a non-issue" really doesnt see the point, its not about those who would stay active anyway, its about those on the brink who need those extra pushes to really get into the site. imo the biggest issue with the smjhl nowadays is the gms, im not saying they're bad I just think for the most part they've lost sight of what the SMJHL is really about, or they never understood in the first place. A lot of these guys are new and its not really made clear to a lot of new members that the SMJHL is all about keeping new members interested while they build up enough tpe to make it to the show. The fact that argar was drafted so late attests to this, I think any old GM wouldve been ecstatic to have him go up early, as they keep an active in their LR and free up a roster spot to give rookies more time. The smjhl isnt supposed to be like real life, I'm sorry if you want it to be but thats not whats best for the league. Recreates used to go up immediately because the smjhl was too much about the new member and I think that was fine.
Also i think SHL expansion is LOOOONG overdue. And might be due for another one after this one very shortly, or well run into the same problems again. The logjams in the shl are ridiculous and cause a lot of the problems that the smjhl are having right now. Its really unfortunate because I am concerned about a lot of this massive class going inactive, and to say we shouldnt worry about that until it happens is asinine imo smjhl should ALWAYS be concerned with retaining as many members as possible.
EDIT: grapehead clarified so the last part of this post kinda irrelevant
12-28-2018, 01:27 PMkit Wrote: Everyone in this thread saying "well i was fine with playing bottom six so its a non-issue" really doesnt see the point, its not about those who would stay active anyway, its about those on the brink who need those extra pushes to really get into the site. imo the biggest issue with the smjhl nowadays is the gms, im not saying they're bad I just think for the most part they've lost sight of what the SMJHL is really about, or they never understood in the first place. A lot of these guys are new and its not really made clear to a lot of new members that the SMJHL is all about keeping new members interested while they build up enough tpe to make it to the show. The fact that argar was drafted so late attests to this, I think any old GM wouldve been ecstatic to have him go up early, as they keep an active in their LR and free up a roster spot to give rookies more time. The smjhl isnt supposed to be like real life, I'm sorry if you want it to be but thats not whats best for the league. Recreates used to go up immediately because the smjhl was too much about the new member and I think that was fine.
Also i think SHL expansion is LOOOONG overdue. And might be due for another one after this one very shortly, or well run into the same problems again. The logjams in the shl are ridiculous and cause a lot of the problems that the smjhl are having right now. Its really unfortunate because I am concerned about a lot of this massive class going inactive, and to say we shouldnt worry about that until it happens is asinine imo smjhl should ALWAYS be concerned with retaining as many members as possible.
EDIT: grapehead clarified so the last part of this post kinda irrelevant
*agrees with post*
*looks at user*
tbh ill address this.
I used to be an asshole, Im sorry. I could blame it on shit i could list excuses but ultimately i was a terrible person on this site and i apologize to everyone i effected negatively and dont wanna be like that. Ultimately i care a lot about this league, and a lot of my ranting and rambling stems from that, i just hope that those who disagree with me or those that hold grudges against me can see that, and can see im actively trying to go back to being like the member i originally was on this forum and trying to be productive. not tryna hijak this thread just somethin i wanted to say
Starting from the bottom and working your way up the lineup is realistic, I understand that, and it’s a very good point. I’m glad people feel that way. However, I think there is a big chunk of people who enjoy just checking in daily, looking at the sim, then maybe making a LR post or two. This is exactly how I was in my first season.(and look how addicted I got after that first season)
I fear they will get discouraged if they see their players playing 4th line minutes and barely scoring any points. I know it sounds selfish, but I probably would have gone inactive back in s5 when I was just a semi active only checking sims and sticking to the LR, IF my player was getting 4th line minutes the entire season.
@"luketd" do you have any stats on when people went inactive?
I feel like in our draft class the most people went inactive around the SHL draft and not during the season, I never really worried when I was going up since I've been enjoying the SMJHL and the members of Falcons. But I can see why people quit when they see how long it will take to break into a roster.
luke
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