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Nhamlet · 07-08-2020, 12:58 PM

07-08-2020, 11:51 AMWannabeFinn Wrote: 350 and 425 caps are products of the STHS-era of our league. I think we’re heading in the direction of altering the caps in this FHM era, but we are only just now wrapping up the 2nd season. A change like this wasn’t going to realistically happen before this point.

Important point to highlight. Though with how things are right now they feel like they're in a decent place, I don't know if a fundamental cap change will happen. At most I see maybe minor cap bumps for 4th and 5th season players at 450 TPE and 450 TPE respectively.

***sve7en*** · 07-08-2020, 01:03 PM

07-08-2020, 12:47 PMFaelax Wrote: Ideally we want players to stay in Juniors for a shorter amount of time, if that were true the cap would be less relevant.

That.

If the SHL wasn't low key fucked and more people were going up after their third season and were able to compete this would be far less of an issue, and it's something that would be a tradeoff of staying down. Increasing the cap adds incentive for people to stay in the J and that's not ideal. Caps are fine where they are, even from a max earner perspective. Keeping the J from having overly dominant players is important for parity and rookie retention, which are in my eyes the most important features of the J.

***Citizen of Adraa*** · 07-08-2020, 01:04 PM

07-08-2020, 12:58 PMNhamlet Wrote:
07-08-2020, 11:51 AMWannabeFinn Wrote: 350 and 425 caps are products of the STHS-era of our league. I think we’re heading in the direction of altering the caps in this FHM era, but we are only just now wrapping up the 2nd season. A change like this wasn’t going to realistically happen before this point.

Important point to highlight. Though with how things are right now they feel like they're in a decent place, I don't know if a fundamental cap change will happen. At most I see maybe minor cap bumps for 4th and 5th season players at 450 TPE and 450 TPE respectively.

Double 450s would suck, but yeah, the cap is in place for a good reason and it feels set up just right so people aren't completely frustrated with their level of play when they enter the league, and can get to play at top of the league for more than just a fraction of a season. The whole cap's reason to exist is player retention and that is simply why it won't climb too far without significant changes.

***WannabeFinn*** · 07-08-2020, 01:06 PM

07-08-2020, 12:29 PMClean Andrei Kostitsyn Wrote:
07-08-2020, 11:57 AMLordBirdman Wrote: One thing to keep in mind is that for new players, it sucks being garbage. Rookies have a hard time performing as it is with limited ice time and making them comparatively worse could have a bad effect on retention.

good point. i think kenvald idea not bad for this

07-08-2020, 11:45 AMkenvald Wrote: Could we increase the cap ever so slighty for 4th and 5th year junior players to give them a chance to improve at least a little bit each season? For example:
Season 1-2: 350
Season 3: 425
Season 4: 475
Season 5: 500
(I don't know what a good TPE cap would be so these are just the first numbers that came to mind)

that way it slow down progression but leave space for improve and invest and have fun. but if i make it i be more generous

Season 1-2: no cap
Season 3: 450
Season 4: 500
Season 5: 600

something like this maybe (if you really want any cap)

Feel like it’s worth noting that a raised cap for 5th year players is virtually pointless. The only players that get a 5th year are inactive and unable to uncap their builds anyways. Anyone able to uncap to the 600 tpe mark as a 5th year would most certainly not pass through waivers.

SlashACM · 07-08-2020, 01:11 PM

Bring 4th lines to shl

***WannabeFinn*** · 07-08-2020, 01:11 PM

07-08-2020, 01:11 PMSlashACM Wrote: Bring 4th lines to shl

Only if we turn on goalie injuries

grok · 07-08-2020, 01:14 PM

the new update scale makes the 350 -> 425 distinction way less dramatic. in STHS an extra 75 TPE meant bumping your SMJHL-level core stats up by 5-10 points each. with the much tighter and faster-scaling FHM update scale, an extra 75 TPE means a total of 5-ish points across your core stats. from the user perspective, that feels like nothing.

still better than hitting 350 before you even get SHL drafted and sitting there for literally 6 months though.

*Good_Ole_Kimmy* · 07-08-2020, 01:16 PM

07-08-2020, 01:14 PMgrok Wrote: the new update scale makes the 350 -> 425 distinction way less dramatic. in STHS an extra 75 TPE meant bumping your SMJHL-level core stats up by 5-10 points each. with the much tighter and faster-scaling FHM update scale, an extra 75 TPE means a total of 5-ish points across your core stats. from the user perspective, that feels like nothing.

still better than hitting 350 before you even get SHL drafted and sitting there for literally 6 months though.

way back in our day grok we got to 350 and that was it

grok · 07-08-2020, 01:19 PM

07-08-2020, 01:16 PMGood_Ole_Kimmy Wrote:
07-08-2020, 01:14 PMgrok Wrote: the new update scale makes the 350 -> 425 distinction way less dramatic. in STHS an extra 75 TPE meant bumping your SMJHL-level core stats up by 5-10 points each. with the much tighter and faster-scaling FHM update scale, an extra 75 TPE means a total of 5-ish points across your core stats. from the user perspective, that feels like nothing.

still better than hitting 350 before you even get SHL drafted and sitting there for literally 6 months though.
way back in our day grok we got to 350 and that was it

we sure did, and it sucked, so the first day of my (brief) tenure as SMJHL commissioner i gave the then-HO a mandate: "you have a month to figure out a TPE cap solution or i'm unilaterally raising it to 425 for all players."

and they figured out a way, even though i was gone before it got implemented.

still not sure if i actually had the authority to do that or not, but /shrug

SlashACM · 07-08-2020, 01:19 PM

07-08-2020, 01:11 PMWannabeFinn Wrote:
07-08-2020, 01:11 PMSlashACM Wrote: Bring 4th lines to shl
Only if we turn on goalie injuries

I have 19 stamina let's do it

efiug · 07-08-2020, 01:24 PM

07-08-2020, 01:11 PMWannabeFinn Wrote:
07-08-2020, 01:11 PMSlashACM Wrote: Bring 4th lines to shl
Only if we turn on goalie injuries

we should turn on all injuries so juniors players can get a little shl time before their callup and feel sexy about themselves. and then maybe they even become happy.

grok · 07-08-2020, 01:25 PM

07-08-2020, 01:24 PMefiug Wrote:
07-08-2020, 01:11 PMWannabeFinn Wrote: Only if we turn on goalie injuries

we should turn on all injuries so juniors players can get a little shl time before their callup and feel sexy about themselves. and then maybe they even become happy.

happiness is fleeting. outrage is forever

***Faelax*** · 07-08-2020, 01:28 PM

07-08-2020, 12:53 PMClean Andrei Kostitsyn Wrote:
07-08-2020, 12:47 PMFaelax Wrote: Ideally we want players to stay in Juniors for a shorter amount of time, if that were true the cap would be less relevant.

not sure i understand but

- Because we not want junior greatski to not want go SHL and keep destroy junior

Make it obligate to go up when player is call up, and make it obligate to negotiate with SHL when SHL team want junior player.

If you get called up, you go up, that's that. There really isn't any negotiating to be done for probably 90+% of players

PremierBromanov · 07-08-2020, 01:33 PM

Why have caps at all?

grok · 07-08-2020, 01:38 PM

07-08-2020, 12:47 PMFaelax Wrote: Ideally we want players to stay in Juniors for a shorter amount of time, if that were true the cap would be less relevant.

there's definitely some amount of added value to having four-season players on SMJHL teams. for retention purposes a senior player on an SMJHL roster adds a lot of locker room value and (generally) reduces the season-over-season turnover as players convert to alumni and reduce activity in their junior LRs.

additionally, considering the extremely limited mobility of SMJHL players both in the league and in prospect trades, i don't think there's any meaningful "tweaks" that could reduce juniors seasons across the board. getting people to call up faster is a structural change that would require significant rulebook, culture, and metagame changes at the SHL level--something SMJHL HO has near zero control over.

if four-season actives exist in juniors, the cap will always be relevant. as long as four-season actives add value to SMJHL teams and the SHL has conditions that reduce prospect mobility, there will be four-season actives.

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