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SabresFan · 12-17-2021, 04:28 PM

12-16-2021, 10:55 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: I'm sorry but with context this just sounds like someone upset because they didn't get their way. Nour, Tommy and the rest of HO absolutely care about the league and the users in it. They spend all of their free time trying to improve it. Even with the current regression system you get 2 years with your player.

Again I'm sorry this is how you feel but it's bizarre to me that you feel this way. Maybe it's a lack of appreciation for just how much work these people do for us to keep the league running.

Funny enough though, toxicity is far better than it used to be. That's barely even up for debate, we've weeded out a lot of extremely toxic people.

Is this where I'm supposed to say, "bring back gorlab"? I remember that being the slogan back in the day. Smile

***luke*** · 12-17-2021, 05:01 PM

12-17-2021, 03:36 PMVaxlare Wrote:
12-17-2021, 07:51 AMluketd Wrote: It still very much is.

I can’t speak too much on other sim leagues but inst VHL just 10 seasons and you’re done? ISFL is like 15? Seasons. I don’t know about PBE at all. But there was a flaw in the regression system. It wasn’t designed for multiple people to hit 2k a season, especially not 2.2k and above. Like I think mike Izzy was the 10th player in S46 when he hit 2K tpe ever. I think I was around 20 in S62. Used to be maybe 1 in a non Reddit class and a couple in a Reddit class. Now it’s a couple every season.

And if we are being honest, with this regression change you can still have a long career. There is only 30 people in the history of the SHL to ever hit 20 or more seasons in the SHL. Only 2 or 3 that passed 25+ seasons, and then Esa who hit 29 seasons(would have been more without S46 expansion). He lived from 700-900 TPE because of regression. Now you can love between 500-700 I think. No one forces you to retire. Hell I’m 21 seasons into the league since I created. 18 in the SHL and I’m above 1200 TPE(if I continued to max earn I would be 1400). That is a problem. I shouldn’t have this much TPE when if you look at real life it would be age 39.

If you look at new regression, your 20th season if you max earned would be around 1k. You can still Haven fucking long ass players. But it’s also a long ass time. I’m coming up on 3 1/2 years on my player, most people burn out by then

I am quoting this so I can use this in the future. This really illustrates the issues newer users wouldn't know. It's why historian and old farts are needed in this league.

I hope im in the historian side :monka: im not that old

**brickwall35** · 12-17-2021, 06:30 PM

12-17-2021, 03:49 PMLordBirdman Wrote:
12-17-2021, 01:21 PMbrickwall35 Wrote: You cannot simultaneously have a league in which you quickly get to the top AND have a league that has good turnover and careers that aren't super long. Either you have a quick career where you're good immediately, or you have a long career that is slowly built up. The two are mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure what you're point is. I am advocating for shorter IRL times for getting through minors and to get to relevance in the SHL. I don't want super long careers, isn't that pretty obvious?

I'm telling you that people are leaving the league because of shorter careers overall.

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 12-17-2021, 07:19 PM

I would contest most of the arguments made in the OP but he does have a point in regards to career lengths imho. The fact that you can have much longer careers in the SHL than in other leagues is one of our big strengths and something that sets us apart from the rest of the sim league universe. It might still make sense to give up some of that if it is necessary to fix very pressing problems as is the case right now, but then we have to acknowledge the trade-off that is being made and make sure that we don't go to far and lose something that used to make us unique.

Thunfish · 12-18-2021, 09:42 AM

For real, lads? I'm actually more in favour of a longer career time, even in the juniors.

My first career here actually lasted through a good chunk of the pandemic and I can actually remember plenty of stuff I've done and talked about. Hell, if you couldn't check your joining date, I would've thought I had been around here for far longer than two years. It's a slow burn but that means you can take your time, learn about your teammates, share stories, have a blast. I'd rather take my time, enjoy the sights, come up with new things, get to befriend folks, it doesn't need to be all about what happens in FHM/STHS/whatever.

Like, I started at the VHL not too long ago after friends told me about it, figured it'd be a fun time, see what I'm missing... except I've already blasted through the juniors and the newfangled European league, but that also means that I'm only familiar with a couple of names I've met there. And that's as in I'm familiar with them in passing, there's like only one guy I can safely say I know and that's because we kept chatting in both levels.

Like hell, can't even sit for a glass of tea...

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 12-18-2021, 11:28 AM

12-18-2021, 09:42 AMThunfish Wrote: For real, lads? I'm actually more in favour of a longer career time, even in the juniors.

My first career here actually lasted through a good chunk of the pandemic and I can actually remember plenty of stuff I've done and talked about. Hell, if you couldn't check your joining date, I would've thought I had been around here for far longer than two years. It's a slow burn but that means you can take your time, learn about your teammates, share stories, have a blast. I'd rather take my time, enjoy the sights, come up with new things, get to befriend folks, it doesn't need to be all about what happens in FHM/STHS/whatever.

Like, I started at the VHL not too long ago after friends told me about it, figured it'd be a fun time, see what I'm missing... except I've already blasted through the juniors and the newfangled European league, but that also means that I'm only familiar with a couple of names I've met there. And that's as in I'm familiar with them in passing, there's like only one guy I can safely say I know and that's because we kept chatting in both levels.

Like hell, can't even sit for a glass of tea...

One hundred percent agree with that take. I've had similar experiences in other leagues like the VHL, they are good leagues but the short career length was always a big turn off for me for the reasons mentioned above. Things feels more shallow, the connections in the LRs are less meaningful and your efforts do feel wasted if you only get like six seasons before regressing and are being force retired after like 8 or 9. Of course people have different preferences but in my experience, having to go through the same cycle again and again because your player cycles out so quickly actually leads to faster burnout than the system we have here in the SHL where progress is slower, but the rewards last longer.

SabresFan · 12-18-2021, 11:50 AM

12-18-2021, 09:42 AMThunfish Wrote: For real, lads? I'm actually more in favour of a longer career time, even in the juniors.

My first career here actually lasted through a good chunk of the pandemic and I can actually remember plenty of stuff I've done and talked about. Hell, if you couldn't check your joining date, I would've thought I had been around here for far longer than two years. It's a slow burn but that means you can take your time, learn about your teammates, share stories, have a blast. I'd rather take my time, enjoy the sights, come up with new things, get to befriend folks, it doesn't need to be all about what happens in FHM/STHS/whatever.

Like, I started at the VHL not too long ago after friends told me about it, figured it'd be a fun time, see what I'm missing... except I've already blasted through the juniors and the newfangled European league, but that also means that I'm only familiar with a couple of names I've met there. And that's as in I'm familiar with them in passing, there's like only one guy I can safely say I know and that's because we kept chatting in both levels.

Like hell, can't even sit for a glass of tea...

I agree with you also about the slow burn.

I have always searched for ideas to make the SHL more rewarding for younger players, so that more will stick it through to make it as decent SHL players.
I've had that mindset because I could never seem to make it over that first three season hump. I've been reading many of your posts as experienced users.
I've come to the realization that many of the changes that needed to be made to improve the experience for players earlier in their careers have already been made, or perhaps have already gone too far to the expense of the most dedicated users. I'm saying this as a returnee just finishing my SMJHL rookie season, so it isn't out of perceived personal benefit.

I listened in to a Podcast recently by sve7en, where he proposed that experienced players in regression should see the mental attributes (teamwork and leadership skills) increase. I'm sure that this idea is nothing new or revolutionary, but I believe that it makes common sense and has a good sense of realism to it. I personally like moderation. Some socialism to give everyone a fighting chance, I see as very positive. But I would hate to see us destroy all advantage gained by the most dedicated users and players in the name of parity. Maybe that aging star has lost a step...or two, but they should have a way to have value if they want to play 15 to 20 seasons.

trella · 12-18-2021, 12:27 PM

@st4rface im very sorry you are frustrated. Just know your feelings are valid. Would hate to see you go, its clear you’ve worked a lot on yourself and your conduct on the site. Cheers man

Thanks to @karey and @JSS for the sigs!

Former USA Fed Head, Carolina Kraken Co-GM, Tampa Bay Barracuda GM

damienj10 · 12-18-2021, 02:16 PM

Yea after years and years the time it consumes uninterests me I don’t have the time anymore and I’ve been semi active for awhile now. Thought I could spark a come back but I don’t enjoy the SHL as much as I used to. I don’t have enough free time to be able to build a strong player do PTs and so forth. My current player is my last player so a last hurrah I must say.

Thunfish · 12-18-2021, 06:47 PM

12-18-2021, 11:50 AMSabresFan Wrote: I listened in to a Podcast recently by sve7en, where he proposed that experienced players in regression should see the mental attributes (teamwork and leadership skills) increase. I'm sure that this idea is nothing new or revolutionary, but I believe that it makes common sense and has a good sense of realism to it. I personally like moderation. Some socialism to give everyone a fighting chance, I see as very positive. But I would hate to see us destroy all advantage gained by the most dedicated users and players in the name of parity. Maybe that aging star has lost a step...or two, but they should have a way to have value if they want to play 15 to 20 seasons.

It'd definitively be cool to see older players get bonuses to something like Leadership or something of the like, but I dunno if it'll bork the sim.

zaynzk · 12-19-2021, 02:43 PM

The regression thing is good, it really sucks max earning for over a year and still not having a player that is considered good since players who are in their 15th season are still better then you. Spending ages in the minor leagues is not really fun and it’s super common to spend a long time down since not enough players need replacements

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