I'm with the person that said transition team needs to spill some deets about FHM 8. Last transition team had a HUGEEEE leg up on the rest of the league
06-21-2022, 01:58 PMDuff101 Wrote: Charmin soft lmao all this is gonna do is force testing under the table and further cloister sim knowledge
Here's a revolutionary idea: Commission someone in sitebux/cards/whatever to make a basic testing script that's part of the GM toolkit, then publicly distribute it so everyone has access to it. If people are so concerned about test simming scripts making it too easy then why not give it out to everyone for free so everyone has the ability if they want to.
Now what we're gonna have is a bunch of people fumbling around in the dark until someone stumbles on what works. I wonder how the league will react then? This rule is basically unenforceable unless someone snitches, so how are you going to even ensure people don't test sim? I understand that this frankly draconian and absurd punishment is meant to be enough of a disincentive but if it's hard to even prove people did it how are you supposed to punish them? Is every team that finds success not based on TPE gonna have to be gone over with a fine toothed comb?
The baseline punishment for first offense bigotry and bullying/harassment is 1 week site ban and 3 game suspension
The baseline punishment for first/any offense test simming is basically a yearlong site ban and your player being banned for life, in addition to losing all jobs and half of your bank
Does anyone else find that a little absurd?
We could just lock sliders
That would honestly be a better solution than this and I mean that with 100% seriousness. I'd say pretty unequivocally that this is in the top 3 worst decisions HO has made in my time on the site.
06-21-2022, 01:58 PMDuff101 Wrote: Charmin soft lmao all this is gonna do is force testing under the table and further cloister sim knowledge
Here's a revolutionary idea: Commission someone in sitebux/cards/whatever to make a basic testing script that's part of the GM toolkit, then publicly distribute it so everyone has access to it. If people are so concerned about test simming scripts making it too easy then why not give it out to everyone for free so everyone has the ability if they want to.
Now what we're gonna have is a bunch of people fumbling around in the dark until someone stumbles on what works. I wonder how the league will react then? This rule is basically unenforceable unless someone snitches, so how are you going to even ensure people don't test sim? I understand that this frankly draconian and absurd punishment is meant to be enough of a disincentive but if it's hard to even prove people did it how are you supposed to punish them? Is every team that finds success not based on TPE gonna have to be gone over with a fine toothed comb?
The baseline punishment for first offense bigotry and bullying/harassment is 1 week site ban and 3 game suspension
The baseline punishment for first/any offense test simming is basically a yearlong site ban and your player being banned for life, in addition to losing all jobs and half of your bank
Does anyone else find that a little absurd?
Yeah, you can't give someone a 5-season ban based on a hunch/inference so this punishment only occurs if someone admits to test simming, or teammates turn on each other. I don't know how each team tests or decides strats, presumably some GMs test and some other members of the team test so depending on the team there may be between 1 to X number of people who would be aware of it and could provide evidence of one or more members of that group testing. I assume that being aware of other instances of cheating (multi accounts, tampering etc.) and choosing not to report it would be considered misconduct in some capacity, so I'd be curious if there's any punishment or penalty for being aware of test simming taking place and not reporting it?
06-21-2022, 01:58 PMDuff101 Wrote: Charmin soft lmao all this is gonna do is force testing under the table and further cloister sim knowledge
Here's a revolutionary idea: Commission someone in sitebux/cards/whatever to make a basic testing script that's part of the GM toolkit, then publicly distribute it so everyone has access to it. If people are so concerned about test simming scripts making it too easy then why not give it out to everyone for free so everyone has the ability if they want to.
Now what we're gonna have is a bunch of people fumbling around in the dark until someone stumbles on what works. I wonder how the league will react then? This rule is basically unenforceable unless someone snitches, so how are you going to even ensure people don't test sim? I understand that this frankly draconian and absurd punishment is meant to be enough of a disincentive but if it's hard to even prove people did it how are you supposed to punish them? Is every team that finds success not based on TPE gonna have to be gone over with a fine toothed comb?
The baseline punishment for first offense bigotry and bullying/harassment is 1 week site ban and 3 game suspension
The baseline punishment for first/any offense test simming is basically a yearlong site ban and your player being banned for life, in addition to losing all jobs and half of your bank
Does anyone else find that a little absurd?
Yeah, you can't give someone a 5-season ban based on a hunch/inference so this punishment only occurs if someone admits to test simming, or teammates turn on each other. I don't know how each team tests or decides strats, presumably some GMs test and some other members of the team test so depending on the team there may be between 1 to X number of people who would be aware of it and could provide evidence of one or more members of that group testing. I assume that being aware of other instances of cheating (multi accounts, tampering etc.) and choosing not to report it would be considered misconduct in some capacity, so I'd be curious if there's any punishment or penalty for being aware of test simming taking place and not reporting it?
Enter SHL Secret Police and the crime of association ?. How long till Finn starts randomly purging GMs out of Paranoia?
06-21-2022, 02:09 PMSlashACM Wrote: I'm with the person that said transition team needs to spill some deets about FHM 8. Last transition team had a HUGEEEE leg up on the rest of the league
Yet even they in their infinite wisdom never figured out how important an aggressive forecheck was
06-21-2022, 01:58 PMDuff101 Wrote: Charmin soft lmao all this is gonna do is force testing under the table and further cloister sim knowledge
Here's a revolutionary idea: Commission someone in sitebux/cards/whatever to make a basic testing script that's part of the GM toolkit, then publicly distribute it so everyone has access to it. If people are so concerned about test simming scripts making it too easy then why not give it out to everyone for free so everyone has the ability if they want to.
Now what we're gonna have is a bunch of people fumbling around in the dark until someone stumbles on what works. I wonder how the league will react then? This rule is basically unenforceable unless someone snitches, so how are you going to even ensure people don't test sim? I understand that this frankly draconian and absurd punishment is meant to be enough of a disincentive but if it's hard to even prove people did it how are you supposed to punish them? Is every team that finds success not based on TPE gonna have to be gone over with a fine toothed comb?
The baseline punishment for first offense bigotry and bullying/harassment is 1 week site ban and 3 game suspension
The baseline punishment for first/any offense test simming is basically a yearlong site ban and your player being banned for life, in addition to losing all jobs and half of your bank
Does anyone else find that a little absurd?
The very low level exploit in FHM that allowed for test simming is patched in FHM 8. That's part of the reason we feel this is possible now. Getting a testable file will now require significate effort. Likely more than any one person is willing to take on.
Part of the reason I wouldn't want to provide a testing script to GMs is it would only further reinforce their influence on the teams success or failure. That pressure is why some GMs spend so much time testing. The league is supposed to be about the individual players and I'd like to get to a point where their builds, the decisions they make with their TPE have more of an effect on their results than which selection their GM makes from a drop down menu.
This ban will rely a good amount on people reporting test simming when they see it happening. My hope is as a community the past 2 years have taught us, that the culture of optimized builds and lines is not what the league is supposed to be about.
Also the difference between those 2 punishments is one could happen in an emotional moment or be the result of immaturity or ignorance. and the other is a calculated decision made to harm the league and community.
06-21-2022, 01:58 PMDuff101 Wrote: Charmin soft lmao all this is gonna do is force testing under the table and further cloister sim knowledge
Here's a revolutionary idea: Commission someone in sitebux/cards/whatever to make a basic testing script that's part of the GM toolkit, then publicly distribute it so everyone has access to it. If people are so concerned about test simming scripts making it too easy then why not give it out to everyone for free so everyone has the ability if they want to.
Now what we're gonna have is a bunch of people fumbling around in the dark until someone stumbles on what works. I wonder how the league will react then? This rule is basically unenforceable unless someone snitches, so how are you going to even ensure people don't test sim? I understand that this frankly draconian and absurd punishment is meant to be enough of a disincentive but if it's hard to even prove people did it how are you supposed to punish them? Is every team that finds success not based on TPE gonna have to be gone over with a fine toothed comb?
The baseline punishment for first offense bigotry and bullying/harassment is 1 week site ban and 3 game suspension
The baseline punishment for first/any offense test simming is basically a yearlong site ban and your player being banned for life, in addition to losing all jobs and half of your bank
Does anyone else find that a little absurd?
We could just lock sliders
Individual and unit sliders have already been removed
06-21-2022, 02:46 PM(This post was last modified: 06-21-2022, 02:47 PM by Duff101. Edited 1 time in total.)
06-21-2022, 02:33 PMPatty Wrote:
06-21-2022, 01:58 PMDuff101 Wrote: Charmin soft lmao all this is gonna do is force testing under the table and further cloister sim knowledge
Here's a revolutionary idea: Commission someone in sitebux/cards/whatever to make a basic testing script that's part of the GM toolkit, then publicly distribute it so everyone has access to it. If people are so concerned about test simming scripts making it too easy then why not give it out to everyone for free so everyone has the ability if they want to.
Now what we're gonna have is a bunch of people fumbling around in the dark until someone stumbles on what works. I wonder how the league will react then? This rule is basically unenforceable unless someone snitches, so how are you going to even ensure people don't test sim? I understand that this frankly draconian and absurd punishment is meant to be enough of a disincentive but if it's hard to even prove people did it how are you supposed to punish them? Is every team that finds success not based on TPE gonna have to be gone over with a fine toothed comb?
The baseline punishment for first offense bigotry and bullying/harassment is 1 week site ban and 3 game suspension
The baseline punishment for first/any offense test simming is basically a yearlong site ban and your player being banned for life, in addition to losing all jobs and half of your bank
Does anyone else find that a little absurd?
Part of the reason I wouldn't want to provide a testing script to GMs is it would only further reinforce their influence on the teams success or failure. That pressure is why some GMs spend so much time testing. The league is supposed to be about the individual players and I'd like to get to a point where their builds, the decisions they make with their TPE have more of an effect on their results than which selection their GM makes from a drop down menu.
Ok then, let's just give the cup to the team with the highest average TPE. GMs SHOULD have influence over their team's success and failure because, yknow, they manage the team. If we wanna make it all about players then why not remove the ability to set lines entirely? Why not remove essentially all coaching decisions a GM could theoretically make? If you want to refocus the league on players this isn't really the way to do it.
Also I'm sure HO relying on teammates tattling on others for test simming will make the community much more united and friendly with each other! It's not like toxicity is also a problem that people pointed out in that massive GMing article!
06-21-2022, 02:52 PM(This post was last modified: 06-21-2022, 02:52 PM by luke.)
06-21-2022, 02:46 PMDuff101 Wrote:
06-21-2022, 02:33 PMPatty Wrote: Part of the reason I wouldn't want to provide a testing script to GMs is it would only further reinforce their influence on the teams success or failure. That pressure is why some GMs spend so much time testing. The league is supposed to be about the individual players and I'd like to get to a point where their builds, the decisions they make with their TPE have more of an effect on their results than which selection their GM makes from a drop down menu.
Ok then, let's just give the cup to the team with the highest average TPE. GMs SHOULD have influence over their team's success and failure because, yknow, they manage the team. If we wanna make it all about players then why not remove the ability to set lines entirely? Why not remove essentially all coaching decisions a GM could theoretically make? If you want to refocus the league on players this isn't really the way to do it.
Also I'm sure HO relying on teammates tattling on others for test simming will make the community much more united and friendly with each other! It's not like toxicity is also a problem that people pointed out in that massive GMing article!
May I introduce you to your lord and savior STHS
Lots of bad takes in general. Lots of ignorance of how FHM works, how GMing works, and how HO wants the site to be.
Stop being so mad. It’s just a game
06-21-2022, 01:58 PMDuff101 Wrote: Charmin soft lmao all this is gonna do is force testing under the table and further cloister sim knowledge
Here's a revolutionary idea: Commission someone in sitebux/cards/whatever to make a basic testing script that's part of the GM toolkit, then publicly distribute it so everyone has access to it. If people are so concerned about test simming scripts making it too easy then why not give it out to everyone for free so everyone has the ability if they want to.
Now what we're gonna have is a bunch of people fumbling around in the dark until someone stumbles on what works. I wonder how the league will react then? This rule is basically unenforceable unless someone snitches, so how are you going to even ensure people don't test sim? I understand that this frankly draconian and absurd punishment is meant to be enough of a disincentive but if it's hard to even prove people did it how are you supposed to punish them? Is every team that finds success not based on TPE gonna have to be gone over with a fine toothed comb?
The baseline punishment for first offense bigotry and bullying/harassment is 1 week site ban and 3 game suspension
The baseline punishment for first/any offense test simming is basically a yearlong site ban and your player being banned for life, in addition to losing all jobs and half of your bank
Does anyone else find that a little absurd?
I legitimately do not think a testing script for FHM is feasible. The sim is so buggy with incorrect clicks and sim windows I don't really know what kind of script that could be made that isn't just duplicating save files over and over which is the easiest part of test simming.
06-21-2022, 02:46 PMDuff101 Wrote: Ok then, let's just give the cup to the team with the highest average TPE. GMs SHOULD have influence over their team's success and failure because, yknow, they manage the team. If we wanna make it all about players then why not remove the ability to set lines entirely? Why not remove essentially all coaching decisions a GM could theoretically make? If you want to refocus the league on players this isn't really the way to do it.
Also I'm sure HO relying on teammates tattling on others for test simming will make the community much more united and friendly with each other! It's not like toxicity is also a problem that people pointed out in that massive GMing article!
May I introduce you to your lord and savior STHS
Lots of bad takes in general. Lots of ignorance of how FHM works, how GMing works, and how HO wants the site to be.
Stop being so mad. It’s just a game
I seem to recall a substantial amount of people being mad that test simming was/is as prevalent as it is.
06-21-2022, 02:33 PMPatty Wrote: Part of the reason I wouldn't want to provide a testing script to GMs is it would only further reinforce their influence on the teams success or failure. That pressure is why some GMs spend so much time testing. The league is supposed to be about the individual players and I'd like to get to a point where their builds, the decisions they make with their TPE have more of an effect on their results than which selection their GM makes from a drop down menu.
Ok then, let's just give the cup to the team with the highest average TPE. GMs SHOULD have influence over their team's success and failure because, yknow, they manage the team. If we wanna make it all about players then why not remove the ability to set lines entirely? Why not remove essentially all coaching decisions a GM could theoretically make? If you want to refocus the league on players this isn't really the way to do it.
Also I'm sure HO relying on teammates tattling on others for test simming will make the community much more united and friendly with each other! It's not like toxicity is also a problem that people pointed out in that massive GMing article!
Their influence is building the roster and team community. We still let them set lines because auto lines are a total dice roll with no apparent logic to them. (they also turn on unit and individual sliders which are disabled now)
This ban is the most united I've seen the GMs on any one issue since I joined HO. The vast majority are happy to see test simming gone. I'm sure there will be accusations thrown around sooner or later, verifying or discrediting those is part of our job.
06-21-2022, 02:46 PMDuff101 Wrote: Ok then, let's just give the cup to the team with the highest average TPE. GMs SHOULD have influence over their team's success and failure because, yknow, they manage the team. If we wanna make it all about players then why not remove the ability to set lines entirely? Why not remove essentially all coaching decisions a GM could theoretically make? If you want to refocus the league on players this isn't really the way to do it.
Also I'm sure HO relying on teammates tattling on others for test simming will make the community much more united and friendly with each other! It's not like toxicity is also a problem that people pointed out in that massive GMing article!
Their influence is building the roster and team community. We still let them set lines because auto lines are a total dice roll with no apparent logic to them. (they also turn on unit and individual sliders which are disabled now)
This ban is the most united I've seen the GMs on any one issue since I joined HO. The vast majority are happy to see test simming gone. I'm sure there will be accusations thrown around sooner or later, verifying or discrediting those is part of our job.
06-21-2022, 03:06 PMPatty Wrote: Their influence is building the roster and team community. We still let them set lines because auto lines are a total dice roll with no apparent logic to them. (they also turn on unit and individual sliders which are disabled now)
This ban is the most united I've seen the GMs on any one issue since I joined HO. The vast majority are happy to see test simming gone. I'm sure there will be accusations thrown around sooner or later, verifying or discrediting those is part of our job.
wtf NL is test simming. fire patty
patty does not test sim, he eats pizza crackers and posts ty emotes. there is simply no time for anything else.
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