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***CampinKiller*** · 12-20-2022, 06:53 PM

12-20-2022, 06:04 PMRashfordU Wrote:
12-20-2022, 06:00 PMCampinKiller Wrote: I'm well aware of that, but it's been proven time and time again that goalies in that range are still way better than a guy at 1K
For sure, I’m just noting that because some people still don’t understand new contract tiers, and may have read your comment thinking they could keep their tier lower by simply not adding it to their build

Oh true true. That would be hilariously broken

*Wally* · 12-20-2022, 07:10 PM

Look like Wally needs to break out the good ol goalie updating optimization booklet once again. I wonder if Scooch ever gave that back?

***Citizen of Adraa*** · 12-20-2022, 08:05 PM

I mean yeah we could just completely skip over the issue of people hiding in drafts as goalies by just making it impossible to create as a goalie and implement bots. It's a little drastic and I think there are people that want to be goalies regardless of how not rewarding the position currently is, but frankly for anyone who even marginally cares about their performance, you don't really care about your TPE as a goalie, but about team's TPE, team's coach, team's strats, nothing really that you would do yourself, and that's a little silly. The only people that I might see enjoy goalies right now are very low TPE earners that just park themselves into a position that won't hurt their teams even at 3-400 TPE, and yet still allows them to have a full draft-to-regression career regardless, which while an interesting niche, idk how popular it is and how hurt those people would be if the goalie positions got taken out of the league entirely.

***SDCore*** · 12-20-2022, 08:12 PM

I have noodled this around for such a long time and I can't come up with a "fair" way to do bots, unless everyone gets the same goalie. Would be an interesting though experiment tho, to see if every team had the same goalie build/goalie set up, what would happen.

Then what do we do with back up starts? Eliminate them, create custom schedules with no back to backs or hard stretches?

What do we do with current goalies in the league? Force them to retire, let them have 2 players and a free re-create, but change all their builds to a single thing? Legacy names for teams with long standing goalies??? The questions are endless.

*Wally* · 12-20-2022, 08:22 PM

League wide strats are heavy physically-offensive. If the NHL strategized the way we do goalies would marginally matter there as well.

Not my full thoughts here, but won’t waste my time divulging on this subject.

***luke*** · 12-20-2022, 08:42 PM

:bedge:

*Wally* · 12-20-2022, 08:49 PM

12-20-2022, 06:21 PMsve7en Wrote:
12-20-2022, 06:00 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: okay but you have to go back to the draft again if you switch after your SHL draft to avoid draft rigging

(This is not my actual response to this I’ll have more to say once I’m not on mobile)

I'm in a different time zone but I bet we can go for 2 hours about this on HTT when I get back

Yes, please… I’d definitely tune in for this.

unconfident69 · 12-20-2022, 08:52 PM

aw man but ive always wanted to be useless

Matteo · 12-20-2022, 08:56 PM

If we're talking about bot goalies I used to be heavily opposed, I'm now on the fence but leaning towards not. Goalies are such an interesting position and it would be a shame for the SHL to lose that. What I would like to see tried is goalies being allowed a free swap to skaters until they're out of juniors, and only half of a goalie's salary counting towards cap hit once you're in the SHL. That way goalies can get a feel for the position while they're in the J, and if they feel like they can ride that rollercoaster in the SHL they can earn as much TPE as they want without feeling like they're doing it at the expense of their team.

**_Blitz_** · 12-20-2022, 09:32 PM

I don't know that I'd want to get rid of goalies entirely, but it makes a certain amount of sense to me to allow goalies to swap after the first season and then upon call-up. If we did that, a player could play a goalie in the J and then have the option to swap when they enter the League That Doesn't Need New Goalies as Frequently.

***boom*** · 12-20-2022, 11:19 PM

12-20-2022, 05:27 PMCampinKiller Wrote: Yeah I think we should just switch to bot goalies at this point and adjust cap as necessary. I think the unironically best way to build a goalie as a max earner would be to just apply like 900 tpe and bank the rest for regression. Or honestly don't even earn

I wouldn’t support bot goalies because ultimately I think users should get to make the players and stories they want. If someone has an idea for a goalie character and wants to run with it, all the power to them. We don’t make the OL automatically bots in ISFL, for example. I think there are some worthwhile points to discuss with goalies but I don’t want to see them disappear.

***RAmenAmen*** · 12-20-2022, 11:26 PM

I'll never support bot goalies, because if some low tpe player is going to go off and have an amazing season, I want it to be a real user. That said, why not just take out goalies from the salary cap (pay us whatever our contract tier would be)? Then those who believe in goalie tpe can pursue it without potentially hurting their team's cap situation.

*leviadan* · 12-20-2022, 11:30 PM

Yeah I don't know much about sim mechanics, but to me the solution would somehow be cap related. Allow users to make goalies if that's a role they enjoy, but have some kind of contract relief that doesn't punish the team of a high earning goalie. Especially if we know that TPE past ~900 or so gives little benefit.

***boom*** · 12-20-2022, 11:32 PM

12-20-2022, 05:49 PMACapitalChicago Wrote: I wouldn't hate the idea of being able to swap to a skater until your junior's career is complete. Administratively, I'm always worried about the logjam of J teams needing more goalies while SHL teams need far fewer. Making sure the J still has goalies while the players aren't left in the cold once they make the jump should be a big priority.

I do agree with that administrative point. The last time the goalie creation pipeline was manually throttled, it solved the SHL issue but it left the J teams scrambling for the few goalies that were left and it was chaotic. Need to make sure that doesn’t happen again.

***boom*** · 12-20-2022, 11:35 PM

12-20-2022, 08:56 PMMatteo Wrote: If we're talking about bot goalies I used to be heavily opposed, I'm now on the fence but leaning towards not. Goalies are such an interesting position and it would be a shame for the SHL to lose that. What I would like to see tried is goalies being allowed a free swap to skaters until they're out of juniors, and only half of a goalie's salary counting towards cap hit once you're in the SHL. That way goalies can get a feel for the position while they're in the J, and if they feel like they can ride that rollercoaster in the SHL they can earn as much TPE as they want without feeling like they're doing it at the expense of their team.

This could definitely be interesting.

I am a bit biased because as I’ve mentioned to some people, my far-future recreate will almost certainly be a goalie, and even with the performance stuff I do still want to have the chance to write that story because it’s a position with no other equal in sports, and I think other users would feel the same way. I’ll hopefully still be a high earner then because I want to make my player the best I can and participate lots. Having a lower cap hit could be an interesting way to make playing goalie worthwhile.

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