There are many schools of thought. I've always preferred ST, and JP dutifully confirmed my notions once I got to Portland. SK more or less amplifies the difference between the two other big decision makers, provided PH or DF isn't swaying it one way or the other already.
At any rate, I don't want to compare doctrines. I probably missed your entire heyday on here, <a href='index.php?showuser=476' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-13'>bbp</a>, but I appreciate your tenure and respect your wish to move forward. I've felt similar things about the community - sim related and not - and you've taken the noble way out.
I loved what you did Charlyb'y as the face off specialist and genuinely enjoyed your sense of humor during the time I was here. In the end, you called me "inconsequential". Now it's my turn.
Each of us is inconsequential. The SHL with its many flaws lives on with us and without us as we come and go. I hope it provided you hours of entertainment while you were here and I hope you do return in some capacity from time to time or in earnest after a long enough break. That's why I came back. The last time, this was almost fun.
Quote:Originally posted by JayWhy@Sep 6 2016, 06:55 AM I'll take a crack at some of this.
1) Skating is not the most important attribute, in fact it can be a bit more damaging than some other very important attributes. It's that people in SHL have said skating was so important for so long, no one ever actually checked and realized that the simmers always used Strength as the most important, because it is. And that's what I've always told people and is the reason I've helped a lot of people be successful.
Wow wow wow, timeout here. Strength is the most important? What does strength affect then? Skating, shooting, body checks, puck posession, etc? What's the point of being a role player if you still need to sink a crapload of TPE into strength? I was going to build a more defensive minded player from now on (since my scoring is already at 60, I figure that's enough) but if I don't sink points into strength, nothing else matters?
I mean it seems like there are some fundamental flaws in this system and I have to agree with a lot of the points OP makes because while hits do tell some things, I'd still love to have more corsi because its sometimes really hard to figure out what the hell is that isn't working. <a href='index.php?showuser=2273' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-3'>bk1689</a> was a -22 on the season and he had more TPE in his build than me, so technically he should have been better but he just got absolutely punished in the sims when it came to that stuff.
I heard Tanner talking about how goalies don't really get good until around 700-800 TPE but with all of this info, I can't decide what stats I should focus on because I'm getting a mixed message from every single source I'm looking at.
Quote:Originally posted by KleslaR@Sep 6 2016, 07:08 AM
Wow wow wow, timeout here. Strength is the most important? What does strength affect then? Skating, shooting, body checks, puck posession, etc? What's the point of being a role player if you still need to sink a crapload of TPE into strength? I was going to build a more defensive minded player from now on (since my scoring is already at 60, I figure that's enough) but if I don't sink points into strength, nothing else matters?
I mean it seems like there are some fundamental flaws in this system and I have to agree with a lot of the points OP makes because while hits do tell some things, I'd still love to have more corsi because its sometimes really hard to figure out what the hell is that isn't working. <a href='index.php?showuser=2273' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-3'>bk1689</a> was a -22 on the season and he had more TPE in his build than me, so technically he should have been better but he just got absolutely punished in the sims when it came to that stuff.
I heard Tanner talking about how goalies don't really get good until around 700-800 TPE but with all of this info, I can't decide what stats I should focus on because I'm getting a mixed message from every single source I'm looking at.
I'm the simmer, I will usually have a bit of a better grasp than most others on this. Yes, strength is the most important attribute. It basically is all about puck possession.
Now that doesn't mean that points elsewhere don't matter. If you're solely defensive minded, putting points into defense and puck handling is great for shot blocks and positioning. It's not that you NEED high strength to be super successful in everything, it's that it's the attribute that will most help you be that successful in all three areas of the ice.
What strength does is: It gives you the ability to maintain control through hits. The most common way to have a giveaway is through being hit, and most common way to have a takeaway is through hitting somebody. Strength makes it less likely for you to lose the puck when you get hit, and it doesn't affect the decision-making formula in the same way Skating, Passing, Scoring, Puck Handling and Defense do. It makes it the only attribute that is solely around controlling the puck and doesn't affect the way your player plays.
The thing most people have to realize is, TPE is not the be all end all. It never would be in any system. It's how you use it. That's why we made everything change to where you have to determine which attributes you find most important. So just because someone has more TPE than you, doesn't mean they'll do better. If they're playing more minutes, they're more likely to be out there for a goal. If they have weaker defense than the person they're against has scoring/skating/passing, they'll likely be giving up some points to them. It's not that it's a perfect system, by far it is not, but it's a system where you need an understanding and a complete player to be successful, not just "here's TPE, I win."
As for goalies, as somebody who builds them primarily, yes it does take until around 800 TPE to be a really good goaltender who is capable of being a full-time starter in the league. It's not impossible, sometimes you can be lucky with someone below 800, but that's around the threshold for a really good goalie. It's just the way the scale works and the fact that goalies will perpetually be behind all the skaters in terms of skill/ability.
An old man's dream ended. A young man's vision of the future opened wide. Young men have visions, old men have dreams. But the place for old men to dream is beside the fire.
Quote:Originally posted by JayWhy@Sep 6 2016, 06:18 AM
I'm the simmer, I will usually have a bit of a better grasp than most others on this. Yes, strength is the most important attribute. It basically is all about puck possession.
Now that doesn't mean that points elsewhere don't matter. If you're solely defensive minded, putting points into defense and puck handling is great for shot blocks and positioning. It's not that you NEED high strength to be super successful in everything, it's that it's the attribute that will most help you be that successful in all three areas of the ice.
What strength does is: It gives you the ability to maintain control through hits. The most common way to have a giveaway is through being hit, and most common way to have a takeaway is through hitting somebody. Strength makes it less likely for you to lose the puck when you get hit, and it doesn't affect the decision-making formula in the same way Skating, Passing, Scoring, Puck Handling and Defense do. It makes it the only attribute that is solely around controlling the puck and doesn't affect the way your player plays.
The thing most people have to realize is, TPE is not the be all end all. It never would be in any system. It's how you use it. That's why we made everything change to where you have to determine which attributes you find most important. So just because someone has more TPE than you, doesn't mean they'll do better. If they're playing more minutes, they're more likely to be out there for a goal. If they have weaker defense than the person they're against has scoring/skating/passing, they'll likely be giving up some points to them. It's not that it's a perfect system, by far it is not, but it's a system where you need an understanding and a complete player to be successful, not just "here's TPE, I win."
As for goalies, as somebody who builds them primarily, yes it does take until around 800 TPE to be a really good goaltender who is capable of being a full-time starter in the league. It's not impossible, sometimes you can be lucky with someone below 800, but that's around the threshold for a really good goalie. It's just the way the scale works and the fact that goalies will perpetually be behind all the skaters in terms of skill/ability.
There's been a ton of great players with relatively low ST
PH is the most important atty IMO (other than END)
Quote:Originally posted by JayWhy@Sep 6 2016, 06:18 AM
I'm the simmer, I will usually have a bit of a better grasp than most others on this. Yes, strength is the most important attribute. It basically is all about puck possession.
Now that doesn't mean that points elsewhere don't matter. If you're solely defensive minded, putting points into defense and puck handling is great for shot blocks and positioning. It's not that you NEED high strength to be super successful in everything, it's that it's the attribute that will most help you be that successful in all three areas of the ice.
What strength does is: It gives you the ability to maintain control through hits. The most common way to have a giveaway is through being hit, and most common way to have a takeaway is through hitting somebody. Strength makes it less likely for you to lose the puck when you get hit, and it doesn't affect the decision-making formula in the same way Skating, Passing, Scoring, Puck Handling and Defense do. It makes it the only attribute that is solely around controlling the puck and doesn't affect the way your player plays.
The thing most people have to realize is, TPE is not the be all end all. It never would be in any system. It's how you use it. That's why we made everything change to where you have to determine which attributes you find most important. So just because someone has more TPE than you, doesn't mean they'll do better. If they're playing more minutes, they're more likely to be out there for a goal. If they have weaker defense than the person they're against has scoring/skating/passing, they'll likely be giving up some points to them. It's not that it's a perfect system, by far it is not, but it's a system where you need an understanding and a complete player to be successful, not just "here's TPE, I win."
As for goalies, as somebody who builds them primarily, yes it does take until around 800 TPE to be a really good goaltender who is capable of being a full-time starter in the league. It's not impossible, sometimes you can be lucky with someone below 800, but that's around the threshold for a really good goalie. It's just the way the scale works and the fact that goalies will perpetually be behind all the skaters in terms of skill/ability.
Where do you value endurance?
S2, S5, S18, S22 Challenge Cup Champion
Hall Of Famers: (S7) Alex Reay | (S28) Daniel Merica
Quote:Originally posted by JayWhy@Sep 6 2016, 01:18 PM
What strength does is: It gives you the ability to maintain control through hits. The most common way to have a giveaway is through being hit, and most common way to have a takeaway is through hitting somebody. Strength makes it less likely for you to lose the puck when you get hit, and it doesn't affect the decision-making formula in the same way Skating, Passing, Scoring, Puck Handling and Defense do. It makes it the only attribute that is solely around controlling the puck and doesn't affect the way your player plays.
If that's the case, why the hell does the "Behind The Build" in the Militia locker room say
Code:
"Strength - The higher the stat, less chance to get successfully hit. Limited effect on faceoff. (Affect by Coach)"
"Puck Handling - The higher the stat, less chance to get successfully hit / less chance to lost control of puck / better chance in shot block or shot deflection. Part of decision making formula*."
This is exactly why it should only be up to certain people to put this information out. This is exactly why this stuff needs to be streamlined. Heck, Tanner said that the rules to the league were spread across the entire damn league before he went through it all and compiled them all into one place. I hate how this guide here says that puck handling affects so much then you basically say the opposite. What am I supposed to do in that situation? If I hadn't come here because of the clickbait headline, I probably would have never paid enough attention to strength because this guide says that it definitely doesn't affect everything.
Not everyone has the time or the patience to shift throug the STHS forums to figure out the sim (even if its just a bit) so that they can understand just what the hell each stat does in the sim.
GCool
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