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Boomcheck · 08-23-2017, 01:51 AM

idk maybe make a goalie pick like 3 stats they can improve past like 90 maybe.

But Steelhead is right. This sim has a lot of randomness and there's no clearcut method to change that. I feel regardless of any change it will remain the same.

Unless a dedicated simmer is willing to run a bunch of test scenarios with me or Abdeezy to try and figure out how changes may effect teams etc.

Awful team? A lot of shots against. More saves. You will have a higher chance of putting up a high sv% due to the sheer volume of shots are sent your way.

Stacked team? You don't face many shots but you still are pretty efficient in stopping enough and you rack up a lot of shutouts due to there being less chances to score if the opposing team puts like 17-22 shots on net.

Or the opposite situation

Awful team? Opposing teams shoot a bunch of pucks at you and you manage to same a bunch but a lot still get through you somehow. Your sv% might be boosted just a bit on some nights, but you seem to be letting a lot more pucks in due to how well the shooters are scoring.

Stacked team? Your team's defense is solid and overall you allow a lot less shots but for some reason you let in a goal or two too many. 21 shots against and you let in 3. A rare 30-ish against another good team but 4 slip by. 17 but 2 get by you.

There's a lot of luck involved, just how it can be with shooting%. Some ppl have exposed this and that's generally why award winners are just straight compilers that get lots and lots of icetime.

I've been wanting to put a cap on ATOI for forward tbh 'cause some of this ridic. Mc was the worst culprit back in the day.

***Hallsy*** · 08-23-2017, 02:04 AM

A test sims with player update scale for goalies would have to be done to see if it actually makes a difference.

Avakael · 08-23-2017, 02:05 AM

Quote:Originally posted by Abdeezy@Aug 23 2017, 11:08 AM
Who we gotta tag to get HO seeing this?

I'm reading, but if InciteHysteria's article was anything to judge by, none of the suggestions in here thus far would come close to fixing the issue.

Samsung virtual assistant · 08-23-2017, 02:33 AM

EDIT: im dumb

EDIT2: don't quote me on that

Symmetrik · 08-23-2017, 02:48 AM

Quote:Originally posted by Boomcheck@Aug 23 2017, 01:51 AM
idk maybe make a goalie pick like 3 stats they can improve past like 90 maybe.

Every goalie would do the same 3 stats, there's 3 primary stats for goalies, a bunch of secondary ones, and some outliers. Either way, every smart goalie would pick Hand Speed, Reaction Time, and Style Control as their 3 strengths.

That's basically how it works right now, except instead of everything else capping out at 90, it currently can cap out at 95, with 3 strengths that can go to 99.

Merica · 08-23-2017, 02:50 AM

Fuck no.

Avakael · 08-23-2017, 02:53 AM

Quote:Originally posted by Phobospwns@Aug 23 2017, 12:26 PM
Oddly enough, I feel like to an extent, this mirrors reality. I know it's cheesy for this sim league, and I'm not saying it's right- but NHL goal tenders, outside a select few, almost feel like a done a dozen, with the quality of team around them being if the utmost importance.  Just a random thought. Sorry it sucks being a goal tender in STHS.

I'd disagree there. When you go into analysis on goaltenders you'll find that they have surprising depth in their strengths and weaknesses. It's just rarely anything easy to point at.

Symmetrik · 08-23-2017, 02:56 AM

Quote:Originally posted by Avakael@Aug 23 2017, 02:05 AM
I'm reading, but if InciteHysteria's article was anything to judge by, none of the suggestions in here thus far would come close to fixing the issue.

Not necessarily. There's a serious ability for low TPE goalies to have great attributes. It takes a goalie 270 TPE to get 3 stats to 90. This is definitely something that could play a huge role in why low TPE goalies can perform well.

The 3 primary stats are most important, combined with the role the team in front of them plays in their stats, it's hard to argue that update scale isn't a large factor.

This is a 350 goalie build I just drew up. Tell me that those attributes aren't more than enough to put up good numbers.
[Image: 4PJKzn6.jpg]

You give goalies the skater update scale, and very quickly they have to think about whether or not bumping a stat above 80 is the right move. In juniors most skaters won't put any stats above 80 because the update scale eats up a ton of TPE for 1 point.

***Wally*** · 08-23-2017, 02:57 AM

Quote:Originally posted by Symmetrik@Aug 23 2017, 12:48 AM

Every goalie would do the same 3 stats, there's 3 primary stats for goalies, a bunch of secondary ones, and some outliers. Either way, every smart goalie would pick Hand Speed, Reaction Time, and Style Control as their 3 strengths.

That's basically how it works right now, except instead of everything else capping out at 90, it currently can cap out at 95, with 3 strengths that can go to 99.

Exactly. That's why I started contacting them a couple months ago in regards to randomness of goaltending. The term I was given was "controlled randomness" and without all the goaltending attributes in progression (or regression) the controlled aspect is removed.

The comparison I was given was similar to putting a bunch of bots between the pipes in real life and simply upgrading the physical aspects of how they move when it comes to the SHL. In having a static EX and MO, we take half the aspect of goaltending out of goaltending. <a href='index.php?showuser=2271' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-56'>Avakael</a> is right... slowing progression, changing the update scale, picking three attributes... none of that will change a thing as all of our multipliers remain the same.

Boomcheck · 08-23-2017, 02:58 AM

Quote:Originally posted by Symmetrik@Aug 22 2017, 10:48 PM

Every goalie would do the same 3 stats, there's 3 primary stats for goalies, a bunch of secondary ones, and some outliers. Either way, every smart goalie would pick Hand Speed, Reaction Time, and Style Control as their 3 strengths.

That's basically how it works right now, except instead of everything else capping out at 90, it currently can cap out at 95, with 3 strengths that can go to 99.

Maybe some will try out some Size/Style/something else combo

Unless the key to goaltending is a few stats like RT/HS etc but ... Goaltending is random af so how does anyone know the key to it right?

idk this would have to be tested, but I doubt anyone would want to build an inferior player like you said.

Symmetrik · 08-23-2017, 03:04 AM

Quote:Originally posted by Boomcheck+Aug 23 2017, 02:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1' id='QUOTE-WRAP'><tr><td>QUOTE (Boomcheck @ Aug 23 2017, 02:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Maybe some will try out some Size/Style/something else combo

Unless the key to goaltending is a few stats like RT/HS etc but ... Goaltending is random af so how does anyone know the key to it right?

idk this would have to be tested, but I doubt anyone would want to build an inferior player like you said.[/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-Wasty@Aug 18 2017, 11:19 PM

Special goaltender builds don't work. Just look at STHS explanation of Attributes:

Skating - The higher the stat, better chance to stop a shot. (Secondary)
Durability - The higher the stat, less chance to get injure.
Endurance - Uses in the post-game fatigue formula.
Size - The higher the stat, better chance to stop a shot. (Secondary)
Agility - The higher the stat, better chance to stop a shot. (Secondary)
Rebound Control - The higher the stat, less chance for a rebound
Style Control - The higher the stat, better chance to stop a shot. (Primary)
Hand Speed - The higher the stat, better chance to stop a shot. (Primary)
Reaction Time - The higher the stat, better chance to stop a shot. (Primary)
Puck Control - The higher the stat, better chance to intercept puck when puck is dumped.
Penalty Shot - The higher the stat, better chance to stop a penalty shot.

Every attribute except Rebound Control, Durability and Endurance are for "The higher the stat, better chance to stop a shot" Would you want to skimp on SC because you're trying a special build even though the sim says the higher it is, the better chance to make a save? Goalie builds aren't like Players where you have different styles, you can't even develop a Butterfly/Hybrid/Stand-Up goalie style because theres nothing to differentiate between any of the stats.[/quote]

***Hallsy*** · 08-23-2017, 03:05 AM

I think Wally might be right for a solution but shl has been against EXP and Morale being used for awhile.

Samsung virtual assistant · 08-23-2017, 03:13 AM

I mean, the SHL goalie player type is weird from the beginning.

Can i get a clarification from HO on something that i've been trying to decipher for some time?

Quote:Stand-up goalies:

Strengths: Size, 2 of Hand Speed/Reaction Time/Style Control
Weakness: One of Skating/Agility/Rebound Control

Quote:Butterfly Goalie

Strengths: Rebound Control, 2 of Hand Speed/Reaction Time/Style Control
Weakness: Weakness: One of Skating/Agility/Size

Quote:Hybrid Goalie

Strengths: 2 of Hand Speed/Reaction Time/Style Control, Attribute of Your Choice
Weakness: Weakness: One of Skating/Agility/Size/Rebound Control

That always lead me to believe that the reason for these templates are so that a goalie is not supposed to be able to have all 3 Main attributes as strengths. That you are locked to only having 2 of Hand Speed/Reaction Time/Style Control.

Was that only me?

Boomcheck · 08-23-2017, 03:14 AM

Size/RBC/RT

I wonder how that build would fare.

Was going to make a goaltender with an unconventional build but goalies can get boring when you're active but they pretty gr8 if ur semi

Merica · 08-23-2017, 03:18 AM

I love how this gets brought up even though the two highest TPE earners are leading the league. Prob could of chosen a better season to start this argument.

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