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*Carpy48* · 12-21-2022, 04:55 AM

12-20-2022, 11:30 PMleviadan Wrote: Yeah I don't know much about sim mechanics, but to me the solution would somehow be cap related. Allow users to make goalies if that's a role they enjoy, but have some kind of contract relief that doesn't punish the team of a high earning goalie. Especially if we know that TPE past ~900 or so gives little benefit.

I was browsing this thread and preparing for my rant until this. That's really the only good solution if anyone wants to change something.

If we had no goalie option in this league or bots instead of real ones I'd simply not have a player at all anymore, because that's the only position I enjoy playing (others would probably agree with me). No matter how much their performance really mostly depends on the team in front of them. If they can't be compared to skaters then a contract relief sounds like a good solution.

**OrbitingDeath** · 12-21-2022, 08:43 AM

Two things I like:

a) let goalies move to skater at any time -> sure why not, it wont be for me though, i made a goalie to remain a goalie. But if someone feels frustrated at the position, it opens room for others that do enjoy it. Now brick only stays because he likes his team, while they could get another goalie that does want to play the position.

b) cap relief for goalies -> yes please, dont let us hurt our teams.

*RashfordU* · 12-21-2022, 01:00 PM

***DrunkenTeddy*** · 12-21-2022, 01:35 PM

12-21-2022, 01:00 PMRashfordU Wrote:

Hmm, yes.. I agree

Scarjo

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*sköldpaddor* · 12-21-2022, 02:56 PM

OKAY couple of things here since I promised an actual response

First, I do have concerns about the implications of "swap at any time" from the standpoint of draft integrity. It's no secret that in general, goalies tend to get drafted a little later because it is very rare for numerous teams to need a goalie in any given draft, and I worry that if that position swap can happen at any point, people will immediately use this as a strategy to tank their way to a specific team without that team having to use an appropriately valued asset to acquire them. All other factors being equal, a recreate skater with a track record of max earning is still going to be a more sought-after asset in a draft than a recreate goalie with a track record of max earning.

As always, this is not to say that I don't want people to be able to end up on the team they want to play for, but just as I've always said in regards to free agency/waivers/etc in the J, I don't care if you want to play for only one team, I just want that team to have to pony up an appropriately valued asset to make it happen. Being able to switch at any point opens up a huge potential for abuse; getting to draft a max-earning player in the late second round because you were the only one who knew they were going to be switching from goalie to skater as soon as you call them up, that's a pretty big OOF to me from a valuation of assets standpoint. And I know you say it's unlikely but we already have people utilizing other means of "tanking" in drafts (telling teams they'll retire if they get drafted somewhere, telling teams they're going to be J lifers, delaying claiming stuff to make their value appear lower, etc) so I don't really have any reason to think this would be any different.

THAT SAID, I've seen a couple people already mentioning a couple of the other options we've been talking about in HO for the "goalie problem" - cap/tier adjustment type stuff is something we've been kicking around. Nothing actually decided yet, but stay tuned on that front, because it's definitely something on our radar as a possibility.

We don't want bot goalies, I will put that to rest right now (or at least I will promise that I will fight that kicking and screaming to the very end if it ever becomes a serious consideration, which it definitely has not yet). People want to play goalies. We know that. Even now, with the goalie player experience being not great, people still want to play goalies. Goalies are important in hockey, not just from a stats perspective, but as a fundamental part of the culture of the game, and I absolutely loathe the idea of taking away that option. We just want to fix it and make it so it's more fun.

ACapitalChicago · 12-21-2022, 03:05 PM

12-21-2022, 02:56 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: (or at least I will promise that I will fight that kicking and screaming to the very end if it ever becomes a serious consideration, which it definitely has not yet).

Fwiw, same.

S66 Damian Littleton

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*RashfordU* · 12-21-2022, 03:08 PM

12-21-2022, 02:56 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: THAT SAID

spooked · 12-21-2022, 03:09 PM

I don't think you can change anything without ruining the draft, short of banning the position from people creating as a goalie to begin with.

In terms of cap and contract counts, no matters the % scale you want to cut off the cap, the higher TPE will always be a disadvantage cap-wise. If you remove them from the cap entirely, maybe that fixes it, but then you have a UFA question I suppose, though we all are already pretty much forced to take minimums in the SHL anyways already so forcing goalies on a stock contract plan and having their UFA rights be mainly about where they want to play outright may balance out the shit in-sim feeling.

pretty much every time I have thought about this, I just don't think goalies should be part of the same cap system, whether they have a separate cap or no cap etc. it just doesn't make sense to me, especially when backups don't play most important games, so why do we have their cap hit included. In the real life it makes sense, but in the SHL we don't get injured so a backup is completely superficial in playoffs.

**brickwall35** · 12-21-2022, 10:16 PM

On a personal note, after watching a 700 TPE out perform my goalie the entire playoff series...

Let me out of this hell. Let me swap god damnit.

***WannabeFinn*** · 12-21-2022, 10:21 PM

12-21-2022, 10:16 PMbrickwall35 Wrote: On a personal note, after watching a 700 TPE out perform my goalie the entire playoff series...

Let me out of this hell. Let me swap god damnit.

swapping won’t save you from Casey Fantobens

PremierBromanov · 12-22-2022, 01:29 AM

Goaltending should be a job that comes with pt pass and $6m salary

***RAmenAmen*** · 12-22-2022, 01:44 AM

12-22-2022, 01:29 AMPremierBromanov Wrote: Goaltending should be a job that comes with pt pass and $6m salary

Lock the thread now, we have our answer.

*Carpy48* · 12-22-2022, 04:21 AM

In general I agree with what Jess said, but also...

12-21-2022, 10:16 PMbrickwall35 Wrote: On a personal note, after watching a 700 TPE out perform my goalie the entire playoff series...

Let me out of this hell. Let me swap god damnit.

I'm not sure if this was a joke or not, but I'll give you a serious reply here anyway (and my opinion). That's kind of part of what comes with playing goalie in the league. You have you ignore the TPE part entirely and see the team as a whole - goalies are only as good as their team is. Something like this simply happens and it will happen to you more often that you're happy with it. You can be the highest TPE goalie in the league, but there will be situations that you can't control. Missing the playoffs is part of that. If we want to take it even a step further and bring the whole role-playing aspect into the picture: you'll definitely need to be mentally strong to play a goalie. For most people it's not fun, but nobody can really win all the time anyway.

I really don't think wanting to swap because of this is the solution. Not that late into someone's career. The cap relief seems a better potential solution.

**brickwall35** · 12-22-2022, 11:00 AM

12-22-2022, 04:21 AMCarpy48 Wrote: In general I agree with what Jess said, but also...

12-21-2022, 10:16 PMbrickwall35 Wrote: On a personal note, after watching a 700 TPE out perform my goalie the entire playoff series...

Let me out of this hell. Let me swap god damnit.

I'm not sure if this was a joke or not, but I'll give you a serious reply here anyway (and my opinion). That's kind of part of what comes with playing goalie in the league. You have you ignore the TPE part entirely and see the team as a whole - goalies are only as good as their team is. Something like this simply happens and it will happen to you more often that you're happy with it. You can be the highest TPE goalie in the league, but there will be situations that you can't control. Missing the playoffs is part of that. If we want to take it even a step further and bring the whole role-playing aspect into the picture: you'll definitely need to be mentally strong to play a goalie. For most people it's not fun, but nobody can really win all the time anyway.

I really don't think wanting to swap because of this is the solution. Not that late into someone's career. The cap relief seems a better potential solution.

Montreal had a higher TPE team than BUF. My goalie has gotten worse as both he and the team has gotten better.

PremierBromanov · 12-22-2022, 03:20 PM

12-22-2022, 01:44 AMRAmenAmen Wrote:
12-22-2022, 01:29 AMPremierBromanov Wrote: Goaltending should be a job that comes with pt pass and $6m salary

Lock the thread now, we have our answer.

This is the response i want from every post i make

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