Well by removing the PT cap the super active ones could claim more TPE right now, we could reduce the amount of available tpe obviously but I think that is what Allen is getting at.
Quote:Originally posted by Dangles13@May 24 2016, 04:23 PM
Well by removing the PT cap the super active ones could claim more TPE right now, we could reduce the amount of available tpe obviously but I think that is what Allen is getting at.
Exactly, thank you for not making me quote everything.
Incremental increases of the TPE available is what led to the new update scale and max builds that everyone didn't like. If we keep doing little things like this, absolutely nothing will be changed. This suggestion lacks foresight, and if we implemented this would just go to show that without learning from it, history will repeat itself.
I only agree because it seems like there's only a five point difference between the cap and the max possible, and it just causes more headaches for updaters since not everybody keeps track properly.
Quote:Originally posted by Dangles13@May 24 2016, 04:23 PM
Well by removing the PT cap the super active ones could claim more TPE right now, we could reduce the amount of available tpe obviously but I think that is what Allen is getting at.
That really isn't inflation when it's the same amount of TPE given, just more to be claimed.
Really torn and evaluating it from an economics perspective. What is the real difference between Capped TPE and the TPE Cap itself? I saw someone mention 'get the extra 5-6 TPE' and, like... does that matter so much? I've been here 2 weeks and I have earned 47 TPE including this weeks check in and training, and 12 of it is Capped. 4 more Capped coming + whatever it in PT4 (2 Capped TPE?) along with another 5 TPE for training and Activity check, so now we're looking at 58 TPE in 3 weeks, 18 of it capped. Extrapolating and assuming no unexpected TPE, that's 5 uncapped per for x 6 more weeks leading to the offseason and maybe an average of 3 x 6 for the remainder of the offseason, so 30+18, 106/36Capped total.
So, the discussion is about less than 5% of your total TPE throughout the season? Those 6 extra TPE will give young players about an extra 3 attribute points and more advanced players less than half of 1.
From an economics standpoint, it's better to reduce prices than increase wages. If you limit the amount of 'capped' TPE by eliminating it and having an internal governer (don't offer more Capped TPE than you want to give) then you avoid the the wage-price spiral. If the amount of TPE people can spend is a problem over the long term, the proper solution is to limit the resources you're providing, because the alternative is raising the prices, and it hurts your beginners a lot more if you say 'ok, there's no TPE cap, but 60-70 now costs 3 to improve' because that shit hurts all day, every day, like when goods go up in cost but you don't make any extra money. Raising the price of everything a quarter hurts you a lot more than not getting a raise, unless the buying power of that raise exceeds the increase in goods. So, if you remove the TPE cap, which I do think is a good idea long term, it would have to be with the expectation and understanding that the TPE given out in PTs are themselves structured in a way so as to not cause devaluation in the long term.
So, choose an amount that you think is fair from PTs. If it's 30, it's 30, and that's fine. But that should be the total sum of all PT TPE available throughout the season and, as such, should not have to be tracked by players. It would actually make things much easier for you. You probably already know how many PTs you'll do in a season. Simply find out what the best amount of TPE your economy can bear is and make that the top end you'll ever offer, and then you never need to worry about it again.
Quote:Originally posted by 701 aka YUNG GUAP GOD@May 24 2016, 03:42 PM
That really isn't inflation when it's the same amount of TPE given, just more to be claimed.
It would be more though for the 10 or so members that have been doing all the PTs, they only get 35 now while they would actually be able to get 40ish or more, not sure of the exact numbers.
Quote:Originally posted by morphinecv@May 24 2016, 04:48 PM Really torn and evaluating it from an economics perspective. What is the real difference between Capped TPE and the TPE Cap itself? I saw someone mention 'get the extra 5-6 TPE' and, like... does that matter so much? I've been here 2 weeks and I have earned 47 TPE including this weeks check in and training, and 12 of it is Capped. 4 more Capped coming + whatever it in PT4 (2 Capped TPE?) along with another 5 TPE for training and Activity check, so now we're looking at 58 TPE in 3 weeks, 18 of it capped. Extrapolating and assuming no unexpected TPE, that's 5 uncapped per for x 6 more weeks leading to the offseason and maybe an average of 3 x 6 for the remainder of the offseason, so 30+18, 106/36Capped total.
So, the discussion is about less than 5% of your total TPE throughout the season? Those 6 extra TPE will give young players about an extra 3 attribute points and more advanced players less than half of 1.
From an economics standpoint, it's better to reduce costs than increase wages. If you limit the amount of 'capped' TPE by eliminating it and having an internal governer (don't offer more Capped TPE than you want to give) then you avoid the price-wage spiral. If the amount of TPE people can spend is a problem over the long term, the proper solution is to limit the resources you're providing, because the alternative is raising the prices, and it hurts your beginners a lot more if you say 'ok, there's no TPE cap, but 60-70 now costs 3 to improve' because that shit hurts all day, every day, like when goods go up in cost but you don't make any extra money. Raising the price of everything a quarter hurts you a lot more than not getting a raise, unless the buying power of that raise exceeds the increase in goods. So, if you remove the TPE cap, which I do think is a good idea long term, it would have to be with the expectation and understanding that the TPE given out in PTs are themselves structured in a way so as to not cause devaluation in the long term.
So, choose an amount that you think is fair from PTs. If it's 30, it's 30, and that's fine. But that should be the total sum of all PT TPE available throughout the season and, as such, should not have to be tracked by players. It would actually make things much easier for you. You probably already know how many PTs you'll do in a season. Simply find out what the best amount of TPE your economy can bear is and make that the top end you'll ever offer, and then you never need to worry about it again.
A final point: If there is no essential difference between Capped and Uncapped TPE - I mean, they buy the same thing, right? - then there's no sense having it. You create work for yourself tracking things and frustration for people who get involved and then get told they aren't going to be paid because they've been TOO involved. Unless you went way off the charts and made PT TPEs have some special value.
Terrible idea (don't do this, seriously) but if you said 'TPE remains the same, but PT TPE has double value, or can buy a whole attribute point regardless of it's cost. The first makes no sense because you'll just halve the amount of PT TPE to compensate for it, and you'll have to track it, so the work increases and yields no benefit to anyone, and the second is DREADFUL because someone at 98 and someone who is at 63 in any attribute would get wildly different payouts (2 vs 12?)
I don't want to be all 'I'm right' here, because I may not be entirely and there's sides to this that I'm not knowledgeable enough about the League to look into the ramifications of, and if there's a problem that would result from it, it'd be another game theory situation. The main question from me is, if there is no difference in CTPE and TPE, why bother instituting a Cap that you have to track? All that does is create a job for someone to ensure no one is getting anything more than they were offered.
Reviewing the PT Cap is a full time job, but determining how much PT you're willing to give in a season to keep things balanced is a one time job.
I'd definitely be in favor of eliminating the PT cap and instead having one less PT per season, so there's the same amount of TPE available as now...if you do all the PTs. If you only do, say, half the PTs, you'll earn less, because fewer PTs available.
The only reason I think a cap makes sense in the SMJHL is because it allows FAs to catch up a little bit with those who came in before the draft. But I don't feel strongly about it.
Quote:Originally posted by Eggy216@May 24 2016, 04:55 PM
I don't think anybody's saying give out more. I'm advocating for give out less and cap via what you make available.
Taking away the cap would give out more. It always happens where the scale changes, people bitch because they wanted the scale to only affect others and they want more TPE so they can be better, PTs end up handing out more TPE and we raise caps and we give out some uncapped because "The cap is so harsh" and then 6 seasons later everyone is maxed saying "How did we get here? Less TPE! Screw the new people! New scale!"
It's a cycle. Let's not fall back into it. It's happened like 3 times already, and I've seen every one, they're the exact fucking same.
An old man's dream ended. A young man's vision of the future opened wide. Young men have visions, old men have dreams. But the place for old men to dream is beside the fire.
Quote:Originally posted by JayWhy@May 24 2016, 05:50 PM
Taking away the cap would give out more. It always happens where the scale changes, people bitch because they wanted the scale to only affect others and they want more TPE so they can be better, PTs end up handing out more TPE and we raise caps and we give out some uncapped because "The cap is so harsh" and then 6 seasons later everyone is maxed saying "How did we get here? Less TPE! Screw the new people! New scale!"
It's a cycle. Let's not fall back into it. It's happened like 3 times already, and I've seen every one, they're the exact fucking same.
I feel like we're giving out more uncapped because we're concerned about the scale. I think the solution for this is a position that reviews how much TPE is being awarded per season--from PTs, PbPs, etc, including capped and potential uncapped--and signs off on any additions. Or that could be something HO should do. Either way, having a person who tracks it season to season and is responsible for making sure it doesn't spiral upwards would keep it in check.
Quote:Originally posted by JayWhy@May 24 2016, 05:50 PM
Taking away the cap would give out more. It always happens where the scale changes, people bitch because they wanted the scale to only affect others and they want more TPE so they can be better, PTs end up handing out more TPE and we raise caps and we give out some uncapped because "The cap is so harsh" and then 6 seasons later everyone is maxed saying "How did we get here? Less TPE! Screw the new people! New scale!"
It's a cycle. Let's not fall back into it. It's happened like 3 times already, and I've seen every one, they're the exact fucking same.
Quote:Originally posted by lil@May 24 2016, 10:43 PM I'd definitely be in favor of eliminating the PT cap and instead having one less PT per season, so there's the same amount of TPE available as now...if you do all the PTs. If you only do, say, half the PTs, you'll earn less, because fewer PTs available.
The only reason I think a cap makes sense in the SMJHL is because it allows FAs to catch up a little bit with those who came in before the draft. But I don't feel strongly about it.
I also like juniors having a cap because then rookies can afford to have a "bad season" or two while they're learning the ropes, and not have it follow them around for the rest of their career. The ability to miss one or even two PTs a season and still hit cap is a nice factor not only for FAs who are trying to catch up, but also for new players who are still learning how to navigate the site.
Don't feel strongly one way or the other on the seniors cap, but I really do think it makes sense for juniors to have a cap.
Quote:Originally posted by Bojo@May 24 2016, 05:36 PM I only agree because it seems like there's only a five point difference between the cap and the max possible, and it just causes more headaches for updaters since not everybody keeps track properly.
Yeah, since I've taken over their's been only a max of 40 capped TPE given out for a season from PTs/predictions, but with milestones, that number and the difference points, varies.
Just saying, if we remove the PT cap, milestones would also probably be removed.
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