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GM/HO Pay
#76

Quote:Originally posted by Boomcheck@Jun 7 2018, 08:32 PM
Nothing about my observations are wrong so I find it funny you react in this way, esp when I taught you how to build your player.

Looks like you get Calgary r1 so enjoy getting bounced in the playoffs, maybe Visser can carry that dead weight of a cursed franchise tho.

Yes, I learned so much about how to build my player by watching you stroke your own dick. I don't know how I could have ever figured out the SHL without your self-absorbed bullshit. I seriously owe you one.

I also didn't realize you could be cursed after a Challenge Cup drought of just three seasons. Learn something new every fucking day.

If you have any more brilliant insights or analysis, please take it to my DMs so I can properly tell you to fuck off without further derailing the actual conversation here. Thanks.

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#77

Quote:Originally posted by ztevans@Jun 7 2018, 05:59 PM


Yes, I learned so much about how to build my player by watching you stroke your own dick. I don't know how I could have ever figured out the SHL without your self-absorbed bullshit. I seriously owe you one.

I also didn't realize you could be cursed after a Challenge Cup drought of just three seasons. Learn something new every fucking day.

If you have any more brilliant insights or analysis, please take it to my DMs so I can properly tell you to fuck off without further derailing the actual conversation here. Thanks.


relax with the language there buddy and I meant that current squad that has my boy Singh playing 14 mins/game, better start treating that mans right. I be telling him to leave the jets every day.
reminds me of the time you ran away from USA with your tail between your legs and bolted to russia jeez

Anyways i'll set this thread straight again.

I believe SHL/SMJHL GMs should be paid too since it's a difficult job and it's not really meant for everyone. Though how much would GMs want seasonally, that' what I want to know.

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#78

SHL GM's are the most pristigous jobs on the site. i agree that they should be compensated.. but the people paying them should have the same rights to review there work and make changes in the way that all other payed jobs in here fall under. Also, if its a payed job then im not sure if its fair to allow the GM's to pick there successors.

1 last thing... there are allot of GMs in the IIHF doing good work... in my 10 games as IIHF GM i probably work as hard as many of the 50 game GM's... give the the IIHF GMs alittle love.. say 1M a year B)

Peace be with each of you Exercise

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#79

Quote:Originally posted by Mike Izzy@Jun 7 2018, 09:08 PM
SHL GM's are the most pristigous jobs on the site. i agree that they should be compensated.. but the  people paying them should have the same rights to review there work and make changes in the way that all other payed jobs i here fall under.  [b]Also, if its a payed job then im not sure if its fair to allow the GM's to pick there successors.

1 last thing... there are allot of GMs in the IIHF doing good work... in my 10 games as IIHF commish i probably work as hard as many of the 50 game GM's... give the the IIHF GMs alittle love.. say 1M a year  B)

Peace be with each of you  Exercise[/b]

I find bolded an interesting point because some will argue to the death that GMs should always be allowed to pick their successors. I obviously agree with you because that was our practice in SMJHL HO, but I think you bring up a valid point regarding its impact on other positions, which would have to be considered if GMs are paid.

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#80

Quote:Originally posted by ml002@Jun 7 2018, 04:50 PM

Lol not really we just have outspoken members for the first time in a while. The kit thing was more of Buffalo players defending their own and wires got crossed between teams.

Calling out long term GMs on not winning a cup isn't fair, because STHS is rarely consistent. Especially in the SMJHL where the real goal is to cultivate activity and help new members learn and grow

I understand that wires def git crossed. But it's interesting you say calling out GM's for not winning cups isn't fair but your own GM called out Buffalo for failing constantly and being in perpetual rebuild.

And yes for SMJHL its mostly about fun and activity, but nothing turns new players off more than toxicity from multiple sources (Not just toronto but others as well.)
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#81

Obviously for GMs getting paid....

But where's this money going to come from? Are we RAISING TAXES? It's not like money grows on trees.

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#82

Quote:Originally posted by Torbvo@Jun 8 2018, 02:57 AM
Obviously for GMs getting paid....

But where's this money going to come from? Are we RAISING TAXES? It's not like money grows on trees.

Maybe they’ll accept Chuck E. Cheese’s tickets?
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#83

Quote:Originally posted by Malone@Jun 8 2018, 04:02 AM


Maybe they’ll accept Chuck E. Cheese’s tickets?

But then how are we supposed to get that stuffed Spongebob Squarepants doll on the top shelf?

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#84

Quote:Originally posted by ztevans@Jun 7 2018, 10:10 PM


I find bolded an interesting point because some will argue to the death that GMs should always be allowed to pick their successors. I obviously agree with you because that was our practice in SMJHL HO, but I think you bring up a valid point regarding its impact on other positions, which would have to be considered if GMs are paid.
I think the importance of knowing who you're leaving in charge should trump the matter of compensation, but it is a good point I hadn't considered in this debate before.

GMs need to be held accountable even moreso if they're getting paid, but I don't think we should hold sim results against a GM (obviously I would say that right?). I also can't think of any current GM who wouldn't be deserving of pay so I don't foresee a problem with this.

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#85

Quote:Originally posted by Grapehead@Jun 8 2018, 06:34 AM

I think the importance of knowing who you're leaving in charge should trump the matter of compensation, but it is a good point I hadn't considered in this debate before.

GMs need to be held accountable even moreso if they're getting paid, but I don't think we should hold sim results against a GM (obviously I would say that right?). I also can't think of any current GM who wouldn't be deserving of pay so I don't foresee a problem with this.

Definitely agree on the points in the second paragraph
It's too early in the morning for me to follow the first one, but I'm sure it will come to me later. Don't sweat it.

Termination should only be an option due to negligence. Not completing preseason tasks, rule breaking, etc. And honestly, most of that is already covered in the rulebook even without the paycheck.

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#86

Quote:Originally posted by ml002@Jun 7 2018, 04:47 PM

You've never sat down for hours running test sims with STHS. It's the least intuitive thing ever created and still finds new ways to suck. Not too mention the shorter off-season hurts us too. SMJHL GMs had two days to do our off-season tasks. On top of that, SMJHL GMs have to help teach first gens how to update, how the sim works, and more on top of that. You're oversimplifying our jobs and I can't even speak to the work the SHL GMs have to do.

I've been a GM in NSFL, DSFL (their minor league) and HO. I've sim tested with that god awful sim engine, and spent hours. I'm just saying that I think the site is underestimating the amount of work HO does. Both jobs should be paid.
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#87

I tried this awhile ago too, just pay them

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#88

To Pay or Not to Pay

On GMs:
It seems like this has overwhelming support from just about everybody that took the time to express their opinion on the matter. GMs put in a lot of work doing A LOT of different things that benefit the league.

GMs spend time drafting, setting lines, keeping their players active, helping players update, talking players out of retiring, keeping the peace, and a bunch of other stuff that varies from person to person. This stuff is arguably more important than any other job on the site. A lot of activity from people starts with GMs in every sim league. I am not going to waste a lot of time talking about the pros for paying GMs, but I think it is important to consider the time they’re wasting on media, graphics, or other money earning activities that they could be spending on updating lines, motivating other people in the league, etc. what is of more value to the league?

There has been a point brought up that GMs currently serve because they care, or whatnot. I do not think any person is going to be hopping at the workload associated with being a general manager for a small pay day. Even if that is the case, making GM positions paid will make it easier for the head offices to remove bad GMs from their positions. The same solution would resolve any issues where a GM that is picked by former GM and do a poor job. In my eyes making GMs more accountable is just another benefit of making these positions paid.

On HO members/Commissioners:
This is an area where the league seems to be less supportive or at least less vocal about pay. The head office is also probably going to be a bit reluctant to pay themselves money, only Congress does that. Not anymore.

The HO and commishes do a lot of the dirty work around the league and deserve to be paid just like any other job. Without these guys this league would look like some sort of weird porn repository and hate group hybrid. Not to mention these guys are also responsible for assisting in free agency, budgets, permissions, forums, drafts, discipline, jobs, rules, etc. They are sinking their time into the site to keep the lights on. They deserve to be paid.

If there are cases where people feel like anyone in these positions is just collecting a paycheck, it should be brought up and they can just be removed. The GMs are kept in check by the Head Office, the Head Office is literally voted on by the community, and the Commissioners should be kept in check by the owners and each other.

I would much rather these people are able to spend a bit more time doing the jobs that we NEED them to do to function as a community than see a few more media pieces or graphics nobody even looks at. The league can literally create fake money from nowhere, we should not be so hesitant to pay people for things they are doing that benefit the community.

<a href='index.php?showuser=2939' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-69'>Dan^2</a> <a href='index.php?showuser=2325' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-69'>Zoone16</a> <a href='index.php?showuser=1765' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-4'>Eggy216</a> <a href='index.php?showuser=12' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-4'>Leafs4ever</a> <a href='index.php?showuser=2005' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-74'>crutch</a> <a href='index.php?showuser=2572' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-56'>DrunkenTeddy</a> <a href='index.php?showuser=2015' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-56'>formx</a> <a href='index.php?showuser=1929' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-56'>SmegKingma</a> <a href='index.php?showuser=2638' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-56'>TheDangaZone</a> <a href='index.php?showuser=1174' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-9'>Storm</a> Pay GMs and pay yourselves!

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#89

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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#90

Quote:Originally posted by ErM@Jun 8 2018, 04:34 PM
To Pay or Not to Pay

On GMs:
It seems like this has overwhelming support from just about everybody that took the time to express their opinion on the matter. GMs put in a lot of work doing A LOT of different things that benefit the league.

GMs spend time drafting, setting lines, keeping their players active, helping players update, talking players out of retiring, keeping the peace, and a bunch of other stuff that varies from person to person. This stuff is arguably more important than any other job on the site. A lot of activity from people starts with GMs in every sim league. I am not going to waste a lot of time talking about the pros for paying GMs, but I think it is important to consider the time they’re wasting on media, graphics, or other money earning activities that they could be spending on updating lines, motivating other people in the league, etc. what is of more value to the league?

There has been a point brought up that GMs currently serve because they care, or whatnot. I do not think any person is going to be hopping at the workload associated with being a general manager for a small pay day. Even if that is the case, making GM positions paid will make it easier for the head offices to remove bad GMs from their positions. The same solution would resolve any issues where a GM that is picked by former GM and do a poor job. In my eyes making GMs more accountable is just another benefit of making these positions paid.

On HO members/Commissioners:
This is an area where the league seems to be less supportive or at least less vocal about pay. The head office is also probably going to be a bit reluctant to pay themselves money, only Congress does that. Not anymore.

The HO and commishes do a lot of the dirty work around the league and deserve to be paid just like any other job. Without these guys this league would look like some sort of weird porn repository and hate group hybrid. Not to mention these guys are also responsible for assisting in free agency, budgets, permissions, forums, drafts, discipline, jobs, rules, etc. They are sinking their time into the site to keep the lights on. They deserve to be paid.

If there are cases where people feel like anyone in these positions is just collecting a paycheck, it should be brought up and they can just be removed. The GMs are kept in check by the Head Office, the Head Office is literally voted on by the community, and the Commissioners should be kept in check by the owners and each other.

I would much rather these people are able to spend a bit more time doing the jobs that we NEED them to do to function as a community than see a few more media pieces or graphics nobody even looks at. The league can literally create fake money from nowhere, we should not be so hesitant to pay people for things they are doing that benefit the community.


We’ve been discussing it in HO. So it’s not like we’re ignoring you guys.

One thing though. HO isn’t voted by the community anymore so our checks and balances would be commissioner and owners. Either way I don’t think HO will pay ourselves. We have enough outspoken about not being paid, including me.

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