We're talking about 15 TPE here, guys. Less than 10% of what someone actually earns each season going full tilt. A tiny, tiny fraction of the effort required to earn money for weekly training and equipment, no matter how you earn it. The entire point of the "PT Union" is that the work is still being done... just on a different site. Do it here, do it there, whatever, but have more fun because you can participate a little easier in multiple leagues. Don't tell me you think those PTs are important or something- if they are, why aren't we all reading each others work?
Literally get over yourselves. This is some OSRS "devalues my character" protest level shit.
We aren't talking about 15 TPE, we are talking about 250+ TPE over the course of a career.
We're talking 150 TPE if we earn every single point of TPE before regression starts, and 250 by only the tiny handful of people who get their players to 15-16 seasons. Not to mention- this person who's going to spend 15-16 seasons actively updating a player on this site? You think they're going to participate that closely and not do a single PT here? That person sounds like a work of fiction.
08-21-2018, 10:06 AM(This post was last modified: 08-21-2018, 10:06 AM by jRuutu.)
08-21-2018, 10:01 AMWhite Cornerback Wrote:
08-21-2018, 09:54 AMjRuutu Wrote: Since I got you here, answer me this: lets say I´m in HO and I got an idea, I want to write the PT´s in Finnish. For some reason that gets support and it´s even put in place, you can now write the PT´s in Finnish if you want. Don´t have to, but you can. It´s promoted as a way to bring in users from Finland, big hockey market and all that. At the same time users who cant speak Finnish are asking if that is a good idea, why can Finnish users write in their native language, but then users from Germany, France etc still have to write in English? Would it be safe to suggest that since I´m from Finland, me suggesting idea like that has very little to do with me wanting to actually bring Finnish users in, but mostly just me trying to make my day to day life as easy as possible by just writing in Finnish and not in English that takes longer?
If the crutch of your point is on another league denying you the ability to do your PT's in whatever language you want (Finnish), I don't think any league in the entire world would get angry at you and prevent you from typing your PT's in finnish providing that you can translate them when asked by whatever PPT team is grading them for clarity.
If the SHL did allow you to do your PT's in Finnish, (Great I can write mine in Irish now) it wouldn't matter if the NSFL or PBE didn't allow the PT's in finnish. You would literally just link you doing the PT here there in this affiliation and that's in the off chance that for some reason we would be finnish language haters???
My point is that by the looks of it, the HO in SHL has users who are also in other leagues and are perhaps more interested about the other leagues, so they suggested idea like this and try promote it as a tool to help all the leagues, when in reality they are just trying to improve the league they are more interested in.
08-21-2018, 09:46 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: And come on now Zach, can you be a little less dramatic and hyperbolic please, this has been a good factual discussion so far and I'd like to keep it that way. I just checked those announcement threads in these other leagues that you claimed are full of people who are super excited and happy about this change, but all I found were a handful of one-liners and like 7 posts overall in each thread, no complex thoughts or in-depth discussions on the matter. If anything, it feels like this thread right here is the one were people are actually looking into this and trying to weigh the pro and cons and maybe you should accept that instead of trying to shut the other side up with your "could someone please think of the children/other leagues feelings" rhetoric, that's just a dick move.
Go back and read my original post. I didn't say anything about those threads overflowing with people celebrating. I said people expressed interest in coming over here. That is factual. If anyone is using rhetoric here to exaggerate my claim and silence opposition with 700 word dissertations, it's you, friend.
I just love how putting some thought into your posts and trying to lay out your arguments is offensive to so many people. This "lol long post" meme is really quite sad for everyone who uses it.
We're talking about 15 TPE here, guys. Less than 10% of what someone actually earns each season going full tilt. A tiny, tiny fraction of the effort required to earn money for weekly training and equipment, no matter how you earn it. The entire point of the "PT Union" is that the work is still being done... just on a different site. Do it here, do it there, whatever, but have more fun because you can participate a little easier in multiple leagues. Don't tell me you think those PTs are important or something- if they are, why aren't we all reading each others work?
Literally get over yourselves. This is some OSRS "devalues my character" protest level shit.
We aren't talking about 15 TPE, we are talking about 250+ TPE over the course of a career.
We're talking 150 TPE if we earn every single point of TPE before regression starts, and 250 by only the tiny handful of people who get their players to 15-16 seasons. Not to mention- this person who's going to spend 15-16 seasons actively updating a player on this site? You think they're going to participate that closely and not do a single PT here? That person sounds like a work of fiction.
08-21-2018, 10:05 AMztevans Wrote: Okay legit but unrelated question based on @jRuutu And @White Cornerback sidebar...
On Jcink it was actually like a violation of terms of service or something crazy like that to not post in English. Is that still the case with this new forum? @Eggy216 @DrunkenTeddy ?
On Jcink, yes, because it's too hard for them to moderate the content of a forum in a foreign language. Here, we completely control the board, but I imagine it would be unfair to make our PT staff mark PTs in a foreign language.
Are the PT’s across SHL/NSFL/PBE all equal in terms of word count/level of creativity required? I could see there being an issue if people just started doing the PT’s in the easiest league, but otherwise it seems okay to me
08-21-2018, 09:46 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: And come on now Zach, can you be a little less dramatic and hyperbolic please, this has been a good factual discussion so far and I'd like to keep it that way. I just checked those announcement threads in these other leagues that you claimed are full of people who are super excited and happy about this change, but all I found were a handful of one-liners and like 7 posts overall in each thread, no complex thoughts or in-depth discussions on the matter. If anything, it feels like this thread right here is the one were people are actually looking into this and trying to weigh the pro and cons and maybe you should accept that instead of trying to shut the other side up with your "could someone please think of the children/other leagues feelings" rhetoric, that's just a dick move.
Go back and read my original post. I didn't say anything about those threads overflowing with people celebrating. I said people expressed interest in coming over here. That is factual. If anyone is using rhetoric here to exaggerate my claim and silence opposition with 700 word dissertations, it's you, friend.
I just love how putting some thought into your posts and trying to lay out your arguments is offensive to so many people. This "lol long post" meme is really quite sad for everyone who uses it.
Very good point. Makes them seem insecure about their posts when they have to mention something like word count
08-21-2018, 10:08 AMWannabeFinn Wrote: Are the PT’s across SHL/NSFL/PBE all equal in terms of word count/level of creativity required? I could see there being an issue if people just started doing the PT’s in the easiest league, but otherwise it seems okay to me
This agreement would have been a total non-starter if they weren't equal effort, from all sides.
08-21-2018, 10:08 AMWannabeFinn Wrote: Are the PT’s across SHL/NSFL/PBE all equal in terms of word count/level of creativity required? I could see there being an issue if people just started doing the PT’s in the easiest league, but otherwise it seems okay to me
They are shorter here in word requirement than in PBE and NSFL
08-21-2018, 10:08 AMWannabeFinn Wrote: Are the PT’s across SHL/NSFL/PBE all equal in terms of word count/level of creativity required? I could see there being an issue if people just started doing the PT’s in the easiest league, but otherwise it seems okay to me
They are shorter here in word requirement than in PBE and NSFL
08-21-2018, 09:54 AMjRuutu Wrote: Since I got you here, answer me this: lets say I´m in HO and I got an idea, I want to write the PT´s in Finnish. For some reason that gets support and it´s even put in place, you can now write the PT´s in Finnish if you want. Don´t have to, but you can. It´s promoted as a way to bring in users from Finland, big hockey market and all that. At the same time users who cant speak Finnish are asking if that is a good idea, why can Finnish users write in their native language, but then users from Germany, France etc still have to write in English? Would it be safe to suggest that since I´m from Finland, me suggesting idea like that has very little to do with me wanting to actually bring Finnish users in, but mostly just me trying to make my day to day life as easy as possible by just writing in Finnish and not in English that takes longer?
If the crutch of your point is on another league denying you the ability to do your PT's in whatever language you want (Finnish), I don't think any league in the entire world would get angry at you and prevent you from typing your PT's in finnish providing that you can translate them when asked by whatever PPT team is grading them for clarity.
If the SHL did allow you to do your PT's in Finnish, (Great I can write mine in Irish now) it wouldn't matter if the NSFL or PBE didn't allow the PT's in finnish. You would literally just link you doing the PT here there in this affiliation and that's in the off chance that for some reason we would be finnish language haters???
My point is that by the looks of it, the HO in SHL has users who are also in other leagues and are perhaps more interested about the other leagues, so they suggested idea like this and try promote it as a tool to help all the leagues, when in reality they are just trying to improve the league they are more interested in.
I think if you believe that the league you hold so highly in your eyes is not acting in it's own best interest/mutual interest to help the site grow then that's not a answer I have for you.
I'd like to think the people in HO here that I know of (TDZ and Jkortesi) are fully committed to the site.
08-21-2018, 10:05 AMAvakael Wrote: We're talking 150 TPE if we earn every single point of TPE before regression starts, and 250 by only the tiny handful of people who get their players to 15-16 seasons. Not to mention- this person who's going to spend 15-16 seasons actively updating a player on this site? You think they're going to participate that closely and not do a single PT here? That person sounds like a work of fiction.
A 15 career season isn't a fringe thing imho, I'd say something in the 12-15 season range is basically the norm for people who don't go inactive at some point, and many actually go longer. TDZ used an estimate of 18 TPE per season, over a 15 season career that would be 270 TPE, two seasons more and we are already in 300+ territory. Those are massive amounts of TPE that are being handed out.
And regarding your second point, the whole argument for this change, as laid out in the OP, is to bring in people who aren't interested in doing PTs here on the SHL (and to bring people to other leagues who don't want to do PTs there). So yes, those hypothetical people you mentioned are exactly the ones we are apparently trying to here with this change. And I'd agree with you, those sound like a work of fiction more than anything else. I don't think we will be able to bring in those people. All that will happen is that we bring in some people who don't have a lot of interest to begin with, and that the people who are already here but who are also in those other leagues will effectively spend less of their sim league time here on the SHL. That doesn't sound like a win-win to me.
08-21-2018, 09:54 AMjRuutu Wrote: Since I got you here, answer me this: lets say I´m in HO and I got an idea, I want to write the PT´s in Finnish. For some reason that gets support and it´s even put in place, you can now write the PT´s in Finnish if you want. Don´t have to, but you can. It´s promoted as a way to bring in users from Finland, big hockey market and all that. At the same time users who cant speak Finnish are asking if that is a good idea, why can Finnish users write in their native language, but then users from Germany, France etc still have to write in English? Would it be safe to suggest that since I´m from Finland, me suggesting idea like that has very little to do with me wanting to actually bring Finnish users in, but mostly just me trying to make my day to day life as easy as possible by just writing in Finnish and not in English that takes longer?
If the crutch of your point is on another league denying you the ability to do your PT's in whatever language you want (Finnish), I don't think any league in the entire world would get angry at you and prevent you from typing your PT's in finnish providing that you can translate them when asked by whatever PPT team is grading them for clarity.
If the SHL did allow you to do your PT's in Finnish, (Great I can write mine in Irish now) it wouldn't matter if the NSFL or PBE didn't allow the PT's in finnish. You would literally just link you doing the PT here there in this affiliation and that's in the off chance that for some reason we would be finnish language haters???
My point is that by the looks of it, the HO in SHL has users who are also in other leagues and are perhaps more interested about the other leagues, so they suggested idea like this and try promote it as a tool to help all the leagues, when in reality they are just trying to improve the league they are more interested in.
I think if you believe that the league you hold so highly in your eyes is not acting in it's own best interest/mutual interest to help the site grow then that's not a answer I have for you.
I'd like to think the people in HO here that I know of (TDZ and Jkortesi) are fully committed to the site.
08-21-2018, 10:08 AMWannabeFinn Wrote: Are the PT’s across SHL/NSFL/PBE all equal in terms of word count/level of creativity required? I could see there being an issue if people just started doing the PT’s in the easiest league, but otherwise it seems okay to me
They are shorter here in word requirement than in PBE and NSFL
Yeet sounds good to me
They won't allow SHL PT's to count on their site if I understood.
Maybe I'm the only one but I actually enjoy going back and looking at my teammates PTs especially as a junior Gm. I often read them and definitely enjoy seeing all the graphics people make
I mean even guys in the LR will share their PTs because they think its funny or it was about the team and the want the guys to read them.
Out of curiosity what was the reason for this change? was their an issue that we are trying to correct?
" We feel by entering into the agreement with them that it will help members of both leagues join the SHL without the fear of having to do a ton of PTs between each league weekly."
Seriously dont join multiple leagues if you cant mage the work load... I'm so confused by this maybe its just my mentality "why do something if you're not going to 100% commit to it" I have joined multiple leagues over the years and gone inactive in almost all of them because I couldn't mange the word load to be good player. The solutions shouldn't be make it easier to be in more leagues by half assing the workload over 3 different leagues... I'm all for helping other leagues grow but not like this.
"We also feel it will help bring back members who went inactive here because of the large workload juggling so many leagues. "
This makes no sense if you couldn't juggle the work load before why are you joining more leagues to still do a PT you never did in the first place? Not like just doing the PT is going to make you any good you still need to train, write media, buy equipment guys aren't just magically going to start doing this because they can claim a PT from another league they had no time for in the first place...
Overall id say there are some very good points being tossed around in here, nothing wrong with a good debate you're never going to get everyone to agree with something especially on the internet. Given my points I still believe in giving this a try like I stated before, I think its just important to get all thoughts and concerns out now so we can address them after a trial run.
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