08-21-2018, 10:23 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: It was made pretty clear by multiple people that one of the goals is to bring in people who are currently active in the NSFL/PBE, but not here. No whether you believe that would work or not is actually point for debate, but there is a very clear intention here to bring in people who claim stuff from NSFL/PBE for SHL purposes.
Yes. I'm not seeing how you figure that's "claim[ing] stuff for free." If they're claiming it that means they wrote 200 words about their football player, 200 words about their baseball player, or 150 words about their hockey player. They're still doing the PT.
Something I'm not sure everyone has considered. Very good point
I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.
08-21-2018, 10:35 AMiamslm22 Wrote: I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.
08-21-2018, 09:46 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: And come on now Zach, can you be a little less dramatic and hyperbolic please, this has been a good factual discussion so far and I'd like to keep it that way. I just checked those announcement threads in these other leagues that you claimed are full of people who are super excited and happy about this change, but all I found were a handful of one-liners and like 7 posts overall in each thread, no complex thoughts or in-depth discussions on the matter. If anything, it feels like this thread right here is the one were people are actually looking into this and trying to weigh the pro and cons and maybe you should accept that instead of trying to shut the other side up with your "could someone please think of the children/other leagues feelings" rhetoric, that's just a dick move.
Go back and read my original post. I didn't say anything about those threads overflowing with people celebrating. I said people expressed interest in coming over here. That is factual. If anyone is using rhetoric here to exaggerate my claim and silence opposition with 700 word dissertations, it's you, friend.
I just love how putting some thought into your posts and trying to lay out your arguments is offensive to so many people. This "lol long post" meme is really quite sad for everyone who uses it.
For some context in this regard, I've always been taught as a writer who has somehow tricked people to occasionally pay me for said writing is that it's best to say as much as possible in as few words as possible, to make yourself as accessible as possible to a wider audience. There's probably something to be said for different cultures, academic environments, etc, which would be a better (And maybe even fascinating) conversation for PMs.
Not sure if I mentioned it befoe but I have worked as a (paid) writer as well and have learned similar things, but that doesn't apply everywhere. And I don't know a lot of good analytical newspaper articles that just consist of two sentences. In-depth analysis and longer features can be much more valuable than catchy zingers and one-liners. But yeah, different cultures play a role here as well there of course and people might want to convey and emphasize different things and therefore talk past each other.
08-21-2018, 10:35 AMiamslm22 Wrote: I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.
Ah yes well what you've failed to consider is that replacing some PTs with links to PTs about other sports rots away at the foundation of the league while simultaneously giving other leagues an opportunity to catch us in the Sim League Power Rankings.
08-21-2018, 12:43 AMClint Eastwood Wrote: I don't get the fuss here. PTs are boring af and being able to do one for 3 instead of three for 3 is very time sparing. We're not too good for the other leagues either.
I wish people understood that. We're all just a bunch of sim league nerds, stop acting like our sim league is better than anyone else's.
08-21-2018, 09:46 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: And come on now Zach, can you be a little less dramatic and hyperbolic please, this has been a good factual discussion so far and I'd like to keep it that way. I just checked those announcement threads in these other leagues that you claimed are full of people who are super excited and happy about this change, but all I found were a handful of one-liners and like 7 posts overall in each thread, no complex thoughts or in-depth discussions on the matter. If anything, it feels like this thread right here is the one were people are actually looking into this and trying to weigh the pro and cons and maybe you should accept that instead of trying to shut the other side up with your "could someone please think of the children/other leagues feelings" rhetoric, that's just a dick move.
Go back and read my original post. I didn't say anything about those threads overflowing with people celebrating. I said people expressed interest in coming over here. That is factual. If anyone is using rhetoric here to exaggerate my claim and silence opposition with 700 word dissertations, it's you, friend.
I just love how putting some thought into your posts and trying to lay out your arguments is offensive to so many people. This "lol long post" meme is really quite sad for everyone who uses it.
For some context in this regard, I've always been taught as a writer who has somehow tricked people to occasionally pay me for said writing is that it's best to say as much as possible in as few words as possible, to make yourself as accessible as possible to a wider audience. There's probably something to be said for different cultures, academic environments, etc, which would be a better (And maybe even fascinating) conversation for PMs.
Not sure if I mentioned it befoe but I have worked as a (paid) writer as well and have learned similar things, but that doesn't apply everywhere. And I don't know a lot of good analytical newspaper articles that just consist of two sentences. In-depth analysis and longer features can be much more valuable than catchy zingers and one-liners. But yeah, different cultures play a role here as well there of course and people might want to convey and emphasize different things and therefore talk past each other.
I think more people need to keep this in mind. Very good point
08-21-2018, 10:35 AMiamslm22 Wrote: I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.
Exactly. A lot of people here can't swallow whatever pride the SHL carries. I don't get what's so "good" about us. We're not better than PBE and NSFL just because we're older or have a larger player base. No one's better than one another.
08-21-2018, 12:43 AMClint Eastwood Wrote: I don't get the fuss here. PTs are boring af and being able to do one for 3 instead of three for 3 is very time sparing. We're not too good for the other leagues either.
I wish people understood that. We're all just a bunch of sim league nerds, stop acting like our sim league is better than anyone else's.
Wish more people thought this way. Very good point
08-21-2018, 10:15 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: A 15 career season isn't a fringe thing imho, I'd say something in the 12-15 season range is basically the norm for people who don't go inactive at some point, and many actually go longer. TDZ used an estimate of 18 TPE per season, over a 15 season career that would be 270 TPE, two seasons more and we are already in 300+ territory. Those are massive amounts of TPE that are being handed out.
And regarding your second point, the whole argument for this change, as laid out in the OP, is to bring in people who aren't interested in doing PTs here on the SHL (and to bring people to other leagues who don't want to do PTs there). So yes, those hypothetical people you mentioned are exactly the ones we are apparently trying to here with this change. And I'd agree with you, those sound like a work of fiction more than anything else. I don't think we will be able to bring in those people. All that will happen is that we bring in some people who don't have a lot of interest to begin with, and that the people who are already here but who are also in those other leagues will effectively spend less of their sim league time here on the SHL. That doesn't sound like a win-win to me.
It's also a zero TPE advantage over someone else that's actually doing their PTs. There is no advantage. There's still a PT being done, it's just on a different site. There's no "advantage" here. There's no magical shortcut being taken. You're mad that someone can participate in multiple leagues easier when you've already expressed that you literally don't give a shit about the other leagues, and the only thing that seems to be the difference is that the PT, a completely non-interactive piece of content that nobody else reads but the poster and the marker, has been made on a different site about a different topic. The rest of your post is speculation, pulled freshly from your arse, and does not deserve to be addressed. The points you are trying to express here make so little sense that I can't tell if you're trolling or not, and until you adequately explain exactly why it's so important that these dead, non-interactive pieces of content must be purely from this site and not some other one, I'm going to assume you are.
08-21-2018, 10:15 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: A 15 career season isn't a fringe thing imho, I'd say something in the 12-15 season range is basically the norm for people who don't go inactive at some point, and many actually go longer. TDZ used an estimate of 18 TPE per season, over a 15 season career that would be 270 TPE, two seasons more and we are already in 300+ territory. Those are massive amounts of TPE that are being handed out.
And regarding your second point, the whole argument for this change, as laid out in the OP, is to bring in people who aren't interested in doing PTs here on the SHL (and to bring people to other leagues who don't want to do PTs there). So yes, those hypothetical people you mentioned are exactly the ones we are apparently trying to here with this change. And I'd agree with you, those sound like a work of fiction more than anything else. I don't think we will be able to bring in those people. All that will happen is that we bring in some people who don't have a lot of interest to begin with, and that the people who are already here but who are also in those other leagues will effectively spend less of their sim league time here on the SHL. That doesn't sound like a win-win to me.
It's also a zero TPE advantage over someone else that's actually doing their PTs. There is no advantage. There's still a PT being done, it's just on a different site. There's no "advantage" here. There's no magical shortcut being taken. You're mad that someone can participate in multiple leagues easier when you've already expressed that you literally don't give a shit about the other leagues, and the only thing that seems to be the difference is that the PT, a completely non-interactive piece of content that nobody else reads but the poster and the marker, has been made on a different site about a different topic. The rest of your post is speculation, pulled freshly from your arse, and does not deserve to be addressed. The points you are trying to express here make so little sense that I can't tell if you're trolling or not, and until you adequately explain exactly why it's so important that these dead, non-interactive pieces of content must be purely from this site and not some other one, I'm going to assume you are.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Very good point
08-21-2018, 08:39 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Instead I just get to watch people claim stuff for free that I have to work for quite hard.
Claim stuff for free? How do you figure that?
SHL has the easiest PTs of the three leagues involved here, if someone is linking a PT from another league they worked harder for that TPE than if they just did it here.
It was made pretty clear by multiple people that one of the goals is to bring in people who are currently active in the NSFL/PBE, but not here. No whether you believe that would work or not is actually point for debate, but there is a very clear intention here to bring in people who claim stuff from NSFL/PBE for SHL purposes.
You understand that the whole argumentation was about 'brining people from NSFL/PBE here' and that's the reason the argumentation here is around that? This affiliation pretty much works three ways. You can be in any league and use any PT of any league you want to use them in the others. This is actually a reason we could see more people coming here doing the PTs as you dont have to write as much as on the other leagues.
Yes, I understand that and I have adressed in multiple of my dreaded wall of texts why I don't think that won't actually be the case.
08-21-2018, 10:32 AMBeaver Wrote:
08-21-2018, 10:23 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: It was made pretty clear by multiple people that one of the goals is to bring in people who are currently active in the NSFL/PBE, but not here. No whether you believe that would work or not is actually point for debate, but there is a very clear intention here to bring in people who claim stuff from NSFL/PBE for SHL purposes.
Yes. I'm not seeing how you figure that's "claim[ing] stuff for free." If they're claiming it that means they wrote 200 words about their football player, 200 words about their baseball player, or 150 words about their hockey player. They're still doing the PT.
It's quite simple for me, if no work was done on the SHL and no activity was created here, then it's claiming stuff for free. Which work was or was not done elsehwere has no implications here as far as I'm concerned. If you put in work in the NSFL, reap the rewards there and build a good player and if you find some extra time, you can then start participating in the SHL as well if that's what you wanna do.
08-21-2018, 10:35 AMiamslm22 Wrote: I think the old school elitism of SHL is out in full force as well. A vocal minority attacking this idea, while the idea in PBE and NSFL has been literally universally celebrated. I don't understand how this negatively impacts the SHL.
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