12-05-2018, 08:28 AM(This post was last modified: 12-05-2018, 08:47 AM by RomanesEuntDomus.)
I usually fall on the "work needs to be rewarded" side in these arguments but the PT-Cap makes sense imho, it gives people some leniency and allows them some choice so that they can skip a PT or two as long as they are generally active. And it also makes it so that the try-hards don't pull away from the rest any further than they already do.
With that being said, can we please stop with this "Can you please think of the casuals?" argument, it's being used way too often and way too loosely at this point. That's not to say that it isn't a legitimate point per se, but it's being used quite hypocritically by many people who don't really care about casuals, but who just want to be as lazy as possible themselves while still reaping all the rewards. This league is already way more casual than it used to be, PT's are much shorter and easier, there are more ways to make money etc. People act as if you need to be a super try hard in order to build a near-maxed player here which simply isn't true. Doing a PT takes you like what, 15 minutes a week, and pretty much all other tasks are basically free insta-claims already. People spend hours and hours in Discord but they can't spare the 15 minutes a week to write up 150 words? Well tough luck, you don't deserve to be one of the very best players then. Literally the only thing that really sets apart the actives from the semi-actives at this point is equipment and parts of the weekly training, i.e. things that cost money. And even there there are plenty of sources of income: articles, graphics, podcasts, contracts, twitter, jobs, money from previous players and so on.
I am not sure I agree with the concept of the league being more casual. Twitter is the only thing that has really been added in terms of money, podcasts have gotten slightly stricter, the update scale has increased the max required TPE, regression has been made more difficult, etc.
The biggest addition since I have joined to make things more casual is the affiliation, which still requires a person doing work somewhere to utilize.
Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)* *All-Time Leader Among All Skaters Player Profile | Update Thread
12-05-2018, 08:28 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: I usually fall on the "work needs to be rewarded" side in these arguments but the PT-Cap makes sense imho, it gives people some leniency and allows them some choice so that they can skip a PT or two as long as they are generally active. And it also makes it so that the try-hards don't pull away from the rest any further than they already do.
With that being said, can we please stop with this "Can you please think of the casuals?" argument, it's being used way too often and way too loosely at this point. That's not to say that it isn't a legitimate point per se, but it's being used quite hypocritically by many people who don't really care about casuals, but who just want to be as lazy as possible themselves while still reaping all the rewards. This league is already way more casual than it used to be, PT's are much shorter and easier, there are more ways to make money etc. People act as if you need to be a super try hard in order to build a near-maxed player here which simply isn't true. Doing a PT takes you like what, 15 minutes a week, and pretty much all other tasks are basically free insta-claims already. People spend hours and hours in Discord but they can't spare the 15 minutes a week to write up 150 words? Well tough luck, you don't deserve to be one of the very best players then. Literally the only thing that really sets apart the actives from the semi-actives at this point is equipment and parts of the weekly training, i.e. things that cost money. And even there there are plenty of sources of income: articles, graphics, podcasts, contracts, twitter, jobs, money from previous players and so on.
Idk where this idea is coming from that you think people think that seminactives should be able to make one of the “very best players” without doing pts.
Funny how you always write a ridiculous amount of words and manage to say nothing
I used to think the same thing when I was super active with my first player but now that I'm semi active I understand the need for the cap.
I've been here over three years. I gave enough. Wordpooping on the same shit nobody will read over and over is getting tiresome for me.
The league needs semi active people to keep functioning. Making it difficult for us to keep up will just drive us to inactivity. It's not worth losing a bunch of us to reward the most active users more. Yeah it sucks when you cap but if you are super active, your player will still be ahead of the others, regardless of the cap.
12-05-2018, 08:59 AMArGarBarGar Wrote: I am not sure I agree with the concept of the league being more casual. Twitter is the only thing that has really been added in terms of money, podcasts have gotten slightly stricter, the update scale has increased the max required TPE, regression has been made more difficult, etc.
The biggest addition since I have joined to make things more casual is the affiliation, which still requires a person doing work somewhere to utilize.
Maybe we are looking at different timeframes/scopes here. In my experience some things have definitely gotten much easier/casual and PTs are the prime example imho, it just didn't happen super recently but a while ago and in multiple steps. Way back when (I think before you joined), PTs uses to be around 500 words each, this then got lowered to around 300 words, which is what it was still around in the late S20s. Then the word requirements kept dropping, first to 200 words and then to 150 in the mid S30s. And now we implemented the affiliation system quite recently, so not everyone has to do the 150 words anymore. That is a huge drop in effort that people have to put into their players and something that helps casuals a lot because PTs aren't just for the try-hards anymore, as they used to be.
I'm not a hundred percent sure about the money but afaik, media payouts have fluctuated greatly over the course of the SHLs existence. They used to be super low at the beginning, then got raised multiple times until they were extremely high, then got dialed back a bit again and I think that's where they have been for a long time now. Twitter was one addition that you mentioned and Podcasts actually are another one, they simply didn't used to be a thing a few years ago, or at least doing them wasn't an option yet for most people. And I'd argue that in the beginning their payout was quite excessive, so I think it made sense that it has been lowered since. Sure, if you want +5 trainings every week plus equipment then you still have to put in some work, but that is pretty much the only thing that separates the super-actives from the casuals at this point, so I don't see it as a problem.
There is one thing though that I just realized when looking through this, and which I think is quite remarkable. There used to be so many changes over the first 25 or so seasons of the SHL, changes to the monetary system, the PT-system, update scales, regression scales, expansions etc... But ever since the last big update scale/regression change in the late S20s, things have been virtually the same. It has been almost 20 seasons of pretty much no major systemic changes and it is just crazy for someone like myself to look back how much turmoil and how many changes they were before that compared to after. And I'm not quite sure what to make of that. If you want to see it positively then it could be because we have hit a sweet spot, a point where things generally work quite well and where no drastic changes ares needed. We put a stop to TPE-inflation, have found good reliable recruitment venues and have stable simming, so good job! Or, if you want to see it more negatively, then you could say that we as a league have really failed to evolve, develop and adapt to changing circumstances. Maybe we've gotten lazy or we are too conservative and afraid of change, we have enough sims and shitstorms to keep us busy, but there isn't anything that resembles a vision for the future. As I said, I don't know which interpretation is the right one, but it's quite an interesting question imho that does deserve some further evaluation.
12-05-2018, 03:17 PM(This post was last modified: 12-05-2018, 03:18 PM by Samsung virtual assistant.)
12-05-2018, 01:38 PMenigmatic Wrote: I used to think the same thing when I was super active with my first player but now that I'm semi active I understand the need for the cap.
I've been here over three years. I gave enough. Wordpooping on the same shit nobody will read over and over is getting tiresome for me.
The league needs semi active people to keep functioning. Making it difficult for us to keep up will just drive us to inactivity. It's not worth losing a bunch of us to reward the most active users more. Yeah it sucks when you cap but if you are super active, your player will still be ahead of the others, regardless of the cap.
With the change i proposed with moving the remaining tpe above the cap to ACs, people who does all the PTs would be rewarded for it. We could cut down a PT or two to make it happen, which would mean less work for everyone, but those who does _everything_ would still be rewarded for the work they put in. If people don't want to them fine, i just find it weird that there are more opportunities than there are rewards.
Otherwise we might as well put a AC and a Training cap too because everyone cant log in every week to post it and it would be unfair for them to miss out.
Hello everyone. Haven't really checked this thread after releasing it. I like how the conversation is clean and everyone is behaving
Okay but now to my point.
So iIsee a lot of ppl saying its a good thing for semi actives. and I get it. But then there are ppl like me who are no lives. Whenever I get home from school I just open PC and will be on it till I go to sleep. That's what I do 85% of the time.
And SHL is a lot of that time. I want to do every single task I can cause that keeps me occupied. That's why I joined most big Sim leagues there is. Cause I'm bored and I have nothing else to do.
So I don't think its fair that people who are super active and do every PT and WFT etc are getting punished by PT Cap and not get the results they worked for.
That's just me. Keep this going!
12-05-2018, 03:54 PMSnussu Wrote: Hello everyone. Haven't really checked this thread after releasing it. I like how the conversation is clean and everyone is behaving
Okay but now to my point.
So iIsee a lot of ppl saying its a good thing for semi actives. and I get it. But then there are ppl like me who are no lives. Whenever I get home from school I just open PC and will be on it till I go to sleep. That's what I do 85% of the time.
And SHL is a lot of that time. I want to do every single task I can cause that keeps me occupied. That's why I joined most big Sim leagues there is. Cause I'm bored and I have nothing else to do.
So I don't think its fair that people who are super active and do every PT and WFT etc are getting punished by PT Cap and not get the results they worked for.
That's just me. Keep this going!
The PT cap isn't for people like you and me. What separates those of us who are incredibly active from those who aren't are things like weekly training and equipment which require a heavy monetary investment to consistently take advantage of (which means consistent media which takes up a lot of time). Considering the PT cap removes, what, ten TPE or so a season, that means that in the end actives are coming out WAY ahead of semi-actives despite this disadvantage.
By making it more difficult for semi-actives to even be competitive (not be superstars but just have solid players in general) you are making the league more restrictive to new and current members, likely limiting the actual pool of potential players, reducing the size of the league, and reducing the amount of things actives will be able to discuss (because there will be fewer people actually talking on the forums).
There has to be some kind of balance for the community to thrive.
Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)* *All-Time Leader Among All Skaters Player Profile | Update Thread
12-05-2018, 08:59 AMArGarBarGar Wrote: I am not sure I agree with the concept of the league being more casual. Twitter is the only thing that has really been added in terms of money, podcasts have gotten slightly stricter, the update scale has increased the max required TPE, regression has been made more difficult, etc.
The biggest addition since I have joined to make things more casual is the affiliation, which still requires a person doing work somewhere to utilize.
Maybe we are looking at different timeframes/scopes here. In my experience some things have definitely gotten much easier/casual and PTs are the prime example imho, it just didn't happen super recently but a while ago and in multiple steps. Way back when (I think before you joined), PTs uses to be around 500 words each, this then got lowered to around 300 words, which is what it was still around in the late S20s. Then the word requirements kept dropping, first to 200 words and then to 150 in the mid S30s. And now we implemented the affiliation system quite recently, so not everyone has to do the 150 words anymore. That is a huge drop in effort that people have to put into their players and something that helps casuals a lot because PTs aren't just for the try-hards anymore, as they used to be.
I'm not a hundred percent sure about the money but afaik, media payouts have fluctuated greatly over the course of the SHLs existence. They used to be super low at the beginning, then got raised multiple times until they were extremely high, then got dialed back a bit again and I think that's where they have been for a long time now. Twitter was one addition that you mentioned and Podcasts actually are another one, they simply didn't used to be a thing a few years ago, or at least doing them wasn't an option yet for most people. And I'd argue that in the beginning their payout was quite excessive, so I think it made sense that it has been lowered since. Sure, if you want +5 trainings every week plus equipment then you still have to put in some work, but that is pretty much the only thing that separates the super-actives from the casuals at this point, so I don't see it as a problem.
There is one thing though that I just realized when looking through this, and which I think is quite remarkable. There used to be so many changes over the first 25 or so seasons of the SHL, changes to the monetary system, the PT-system, update scales, regression scales, expansions etc... But ever since the last big update scale/regression change in the late S20s, things have been virtually the same. It has been almost 20 seasons of pretty much no major systemic changes and it is just crazy for someone like myself to look back how much turmoil and how many changes they were before that compared to after. And I'm not quite sure what to make of that. If you want to see it positively then it could be because we have hit a sweet spot, a point where things generally work quite well and where no drastic changes ares needed. We put a stop to TPE-inflation, have found good reliable recruitment venues and have stable simming, so good job! Or, if you want to see it more negatively, then you could say that we as a league have really failed to evolve, develop and adapt to changing circumstances. Maybe we've gotten lazy or we are too conservative and afraid of change, we have enough sims and shitstorms to keep us busy, but there isn't anything that resembles a vision for the future. As I said, I don't know which interpretation is the right one, but it's quite an interesting question imho that does deserve some further evaluation.
There definitely have been a few changes since I joined the site:
From S32 onwards the cap changed from 35 to 40 and Weekend Funtime was introduced. -> small TPE inflation
From S33 PGS were only available to SMJHL Rookie no longer to send downs limiting the small benefit of staying down.
Dunno when it happened but the changes to PbP's no longer being in every round after game 4 also cut down the TPE of max earner like Toedragon. (You could do multiple per season back then and way more were available compared to now)
Media payment scale changed you no longer have that sweet spot at what was it 2.5k words?
Podcast pay was reduced too.
I am prolly missing some other small changes but these are the ones I was able to remember.
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