11-22-2019, 08:30 PMchetib Wrote: Surely you are not naive enough to believe that exploiting of the sim engine to a critical level would be just brushed off do you?
you really think finding legal loopholes in the system deserves punishment? you really cant be serious
im not saying anyone in ham should get punished, i think it's to much of a grey area but calling it legal is kinda funny. I don't think this thread would exist if the league thought these things were legal.
11-22-2019, 08:30 PMchetib Wrote: Surely you are not naive enough to believe that exploiting of the sim engine to a critical level would be just brushed off do you?
you really think finding legal loopholes in the system deserves punishment? you really cant be serious
Legal loophole? You exploited the system that everyone uses for fun just so you and the morons on Hamilton could have some luls at everyone elses expense. You ruined the experience for everyone and put HO in a terrible position. Can't think of a better chance to set a precedent on punishments for abusing exploits in the sim engine.
11-22-2019, 08:54 PMSamee Wrote: you really think finding legal loopholes in the system deserves punishment? you really cant be serious
Legal loophole? You exploited the system that everyone uses for fun just so you and the morons on Hamilton could have some luls at everyone elses expense. You ruined the experience for everyone and put HO in a terrible position. Can't think of a better chance to set a precedent on punishments for abusing exploits in the sim engine.
lol yeah, ill be the first to tell you that our management team spent weeks finding this whacky problem in the system just for the "luls at everyone elses expense". sorry your entire sim league experience has been ruined because boo hoo the season got delayed a few days.
11-22-2019, 08:54 PMSamee Wrote: you really think finding legal loopholes in the system deserves punishment? you really cant be serious
im not saying anyone in ham should get punished, i think it's to much of a grey area but calling it legal is kinda funny. I don't think this thread would exist if the league thought these things were legal.
The delay has nothing to do with it being illegal, it has everything to do with trying to make the sim as balanced as possible. It was perfectly legal and arguing otherwise is missing the point
We test simmed something that worked REALLY well, acted on it, and left it for the rest of the team's to counter, only for it to be discovered that it really doesn't have a counter. Calling it a loophole is dumb frankly @Samee, it wasn't a loophole. It was a discovery made during test sims that no one including us knew was as broken as it was until other teams tried testing against it. We just found something that worked and rolled with it expecting the competition to adjust, which is just strategy really Literally the entire site's worth of GMs test sims all the time looking for advantages. Punishing a team for running into this with zero malicious intent would be ridiculous and anyone calling for punishment is being equally ridiculous
11-22-2019, 08:54 PMSamee Wrote: you really think finding legal loopholes in the system deserves punishment? you really cant be serious
Legal loophole? You exploited the system that everyone uses for fun just so you and the morons on Hamilton could have some luls at everyone elses expense. You ruined the experience for everyone and put HO in a terrible position. Can't think of a better chance to set a precedent on punishments for abusing exploits in the sim engine.
You're acting like this entire website hasn't been trying to crack sths for years. Didn't you ask me to help you find the meta goalie build a while ago?
11-22-2019, 09:05 PMMayuu Wrote: im not saying anyone in ham should get punished, i think it's to much of a grey area but calling it legal is kinda funny. I don't think this thread would exist if the league thought these things were legal.
The delay has nothing to do with it being illegal, it has everything to do with trying to make the sim as balanced as possible. It was perfectly legal and arguing otherwise is missing the point
We test simmed something that worked REALLY well, acted on it, and left it for the rest of the team's to counter, only for it to be discovered that it really doesn't have a counter. Calling it a loophole is dumb frankly @Samee, it wasn't a loophole. It was a discovery made during test sims that no one including us knew was as broken as it was until other teams tried testing against it. We just found something that worked and rolled with it expecting the competition to adjust, which is just strategy really Literally the entire site's worth of GMs test sims all the time looking for advantages. Punishing a team for running into this with zero malicious intent would be ridiculous and anyone calling for punishment is being equally ridiculous
This is why I don't think there should be punishments, we should't try to limit people trying to get better at the game via strategic edges.
Sadly it just so happened that this "strategy" kind breaks the simulation engine and makes other strategies moot.
But on the other hand it also makes so that the league has to progress, it sucks right now since everyone is scrambling but I think it will put the league in a better place once this settles.
11-22-2019, 09:17 PMnotorioustig Wrote: The delay has nothing to do with it being illegal, it has everything to do with trying to make the sim as balanced as possible. It was perfectly legal and arguing otherwise is missing the point
We test simmed something that worked REALLY well, acted on it, and left it for the rest of the team's to counter, only for it to be discovered that it really doesn't have a counter. Calling it a loophole is dumb frankly @Samee, it wasn't a loophole. It was a discovery made during test sims that no one including us knew was as broken as it was until other teams tried testing against it. We just found something that worked and rolled with it expecting the competition to adjust, which is just strategy really Literally the entire site's worth of GMs test sims all the time looking for advantages. Punishing a team for running into this with zero malicious intent would be ridiculous and anyone calling for punishment is being equally ridiculous
This is why I don't think there should be punishments, we should't try to limit people trying to get better at the game via strategic edges.
Sadly it just so happened that this "strategy" kind breaks the simulation engine and makes other strategies moot.
But on the other hand it also makes so that the league has to progress, it sucks right now since everyone is scrambling but I think it will put the league in a better place once this settles.
Yeah this is the reasonable take. We weren't trying to break STHS, we found a successful strategy and coordinated a ton of people to try and make effective use of it. Had we known it would set all of this into motion of course we wouldn't have done it, but over time someone else would have. Now we know, HO has made a plan to make things as balanced as possible on a shitty sim engine, and are working towards the future. If people want to come in here and act like Hallsy and Aaron fucked their wives and then shit on their porch, that's on them.
11-22-2019, 09:42 PM(This post was last modified: 11-22-2019, 09:43 PM by charlieconway.)
In the beginning of this whole fiasco I was pretty mad at Hamilton for going for this instead of informing the league. But as time has gone on I've come to realize that it's pretty reasonable to try and find the best possible configuration for STHS. It's not like Hallsy & co. all found some way to inject illegal tpe in their player builds. Redistributes and coordinated builds are a part of the process.
I'd like to see a team in a similar situation in the future warn the league next time before going for it, at least when it's such a dumb unintuitive method like cratering a stat people thought was crucial.
...but in the end, it's not Hamilton's fault. It's the sim's. Hopefully the league can find a sim engine that doesn't have the depth of a puddle.
11-22-2019, 09:42 PMcharlieconway Wrote: In the beginning of this whole fiasco I was pretty mad at Hamilton for going for this instead of informing the league. But as time has gone on I've come to realize that it's pretty reasonable to try and find the best possible configuration for STHS. It's not like Hallsy & co. all found some way to inject illegal tpe in their player builds. Redistributes and coordinated builds are a part of the process.
I'd like to see a team in a similar situation in the future warn the league next time before going for it, at least when it's such a dumb unintuitive method like cratering a stat people thought was crucial.
...but in the end, it's not Hamilton's fault. It's the sim's. Hopefully the league can find a sim engine that doesn't have the depth of a puddle.
This was my first thought, if Ham's simmers/gms just kept this to themselves and informed the HO instead of getting their roster to go along with it this whole situation would have been very different.
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