01-08-2020, 10:24 AMjRuutu Wrote: Would you say it´s impossible for qualified member to even get bullied in a situation like this? (Applying for similar jobs in SHL multime times, but time after time getting denied?)
Bullying - “seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce (someone perceived as vulnerable).”
don’t really think getting passed over for some shl gm jobs meets this criteria personally
Sounds pretty harmful actions to me, McZ invests a lot of time and effort to this place, deserves to be told how it is and not taken for a ride everytime there is a GM opening.
01-08-2020, 10:26 AMJNH Wrote:
01-08-2020, 10:17 AMjRuutu Wrote: What do you know about the resumes?
I’ve seen both as GM? Was in SHL HO while McZ was GMing? Have dealt with both in trade talks as a GM?
No I meant about resumes on this case, how do you know if the resumes were good or bad?
01-08-2020, 10:04 AMJNH Wrote: damn mcz has gaslighted MIN into believing he’s a better GM candidate than gibbles lmao
This. RT.
I agree with one thing the pro-McZ contingent has said here: HO needs to just tell him to stop applying because the majority of people in positions of authority don't trust him to put the welfare of a team over his own selfish interests. I liked McZ, but even I've come around to understanding it's the McZ show or nothing.
Hell, he's shown an inability to manage or keep track of the most basic of details in a management role with MIN.
How do I know this? During my FA period, he tried to pitch me to be the 1C for Minnesota as an FA.... Cassius Darrow is now and has always been a defenseman. He knows this, because he's played with me in both Germany AND Buffalo. If you're gonna try to recruit someone to join your team, you should have your shit together. I also know @BadWolf had a similar situation with him before she left MIN.
I can't in good conscience recommend anyone who cares about team success play for a McZ team. I know Gibbles cares about not only his team's success, but entire league success whenever and however possible. I've seen it repeatedly over the last 5-6 seasons he's been with Anaheim.
I remember Darrow and I talking about this a long time ago, where he strongly defended McZ. This is not someone who was fully against him from the start. Plus a multiple time teammate and one of the most level headed members of the site? Come on guys, if you’re an older member of the site, you’re being willfully ignorant when it comes to McZ. McZ isn’t a bad guy, but the evidence shows he is a bad GM who is bad for the teams he GMs.
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01-08-2020, 10:03 AMnour Wrote: What, aside from McZ being a member here longer than SpartanGibbles, makes him more qualified?
Gibbles has...
- Been in Minnesota longer
- Been in Minnesota MANAGEMENT longer
- Has more recent GM experience
- Is an updater (invalidating your strange argument that he can’t regress people)
- Is a much safer pick since he hasn’t been fired, much less twice (and this is coming from an SMJHL GM whose been fired and lost out on jobs because of it)
- Isn’t a risk to put his player before the team (look at the way McZ does his lines to award himself top minutes, or the recent scouting survey where he name drops the chance to ‘Play with Balls’)
SHL HO picked the best candidate for the job, and your only argument is that McZ is older and tries hard? Everyone who applies is also trying, and being older genuinely doesn’t mean shit if you can’t back up your candidacy, which McZ can’t do nearly as well as Gibbles right now (see points above).
McZ was in this league when Spartan and SdCore were still kids and surfing together in Anaheim. McZ has had multiple jobs in this league, even IIHF commissioner now, so it looks like the league has no trouble in using McZ, but when it comes down to giving out some credit and maybe rewarding that work and activity - they quickly move to the errors of the past and never let go.
Lets be honest, McZ has 1700 TPE, most in Minnesota, second most is at 1500, so playing the most is not that weird, especially in Minnesota of all teams that has in total of I believe 6 1000+ TPE players.
Right of the bat your first argument is that McZ has been here longer, which literally everyone agrees isn’t much of a deciding factor if at all, and SpartanGibbles has held plenty of jobs too, including more recent GM experience and an updating position. You’re looking at this entirely from the perspective of “HO would hire anyone just to not hire McZ”, and not even remotely considering that Gibbles got the job because he’s???? qualified??? a better candidate??? You’re acting like Gibbles is an IA player who swooped in and stole the job thanks to HO’s plotting against McZ, and not even remotely giving him the credit his track record deserves. I have no doubt in my mind HO picked the best candidate.
I’ll give you playing the most might be justified, but playing him top pair with the lowest TPE defenseman on his team really comes across as stat padding, its not like MIN is deep enough to afford spreading their depth, and you haven’t addressed any of the other 5 points I made for Gibbles, or the second half of the 6th point that mentioned the survey.
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01-08-2020, 10:14 AMjRuutu Wrote: Lets be honest, McZ has 1700 TPE, most in Minnesota, second most is at 1500, so playing the most is not that weird, especially in Minnesota of all teams that has in total of I believe 6 1000+ TPE players.
As coach McZ promised a player a 1st line C role, he then changed his player’s position to C and put himself there. That player was a key part of the future core and in the Chiefs leadership group, now that player is gone. It has nothing to do with TPE, this is not team first behaviour.
I really hope you and everyone else acting upset in this thread give Gibbles a chance because he’s a fantastic GM and even better person and if you got to know that about him before dismissing him because he’s InExPeRiEnCeD, you’d realize that Minny has been put in excellent hands.
Who is that player? If the player he took the 1st line C role was not 100% active - that is what happens, actives take over.
I have nothing against Spartan, unfortunate that he is part of this whole thing.
01-08-2020, 10:14 AMjRuutu Wrote: McZ was in this league when Spartan and SdCore were still kids and surfing together in Anaheim. McZ has had multiple jobs in this league, even IIHF commissioner now, so it looks like the league has no trouble in using McZ, but when it comes down to giving out some credit and maybe rewarding that work and activity - they quickly move to the errors of the past and never let go.
Lets be honest, McZ has 1700 TPE, most in Minnesota, second most is at 1500, so playing the most is not that weird, especially in Minnesota of all teams that has in total of I believe 6 1000+ TPE players.
Right of the bat your first argument is that McZ has been here longer, which literally everyone agrees isn’t much of a deciding factor if at all, and SpartanGibbles has held plenty of jobs too, including more recent GM experience and an updating position. You’re looking at this entirely from the perspective of “HO would hire anyone just to not hire McZ”, and not even remotely considering that Gibbles got the job because he’s???? qualified??? a better candidate??? You’re acting like Gibbles is an IA player who swooped in and stole the job thanks to HO’s plotting against McZ, and not even remotely giving him the credit his track record deserves. I have no doubt in my mind HO picked the best candidate.
I’ll give you playing the most might be justified, but playing him top pair with the lowest TPE defenseman on his team really comes across as stat padding, its not like MIN is deep enough to afford spreading their depth, and you haven’t addressed any of the other 5 points I made for Gibbles, or the second half of the 6th point that mentioned the survey.
And I still feel simply the fact that someone has been here longer automatically says they might know a lot more about the league than someone who has been here less time. Especially in McZ´s case where he has done it all during his time here.
What should I think as a ´neutral´ viewer, I see GM jobs opening and I hear McZ going for them, he does not get them. Couple times I understand it, maybe there is a lot of members who want the job and only one gets it, but when we get to three and more times, then its personal from HO towards McZ. I honestly think McZ is that good of a candidate to run any team. If you don´t want to give him that opportunity to even show what he can do? That is not right.
01-08-2020, 10:33 AMBDonini Wrote: As coach McZ promised a player a 1st line C role, he then changed his player’s position to C and put himself there. That player was a key part of the future core and in the Chiefs leadership group, now that player is gone. It has nothing to do with TPE, this is not team first behaviour.
I really hope you and everyone else acting upset in this thread give Gibbles a chance because he’s a fantastic GM and even better person and if you got to know that about him before dismissing him because he’s InExPeRiEnCeD, you’d realize that Minny has been put in excellent hands.
Who is that player? If the player he took the 1st line C role was not 100% active - that is what happens, actives take over.
I have nothing against Spartan, unfortunate that he is part of this whole thing.
That player was 100% active, one of the key parts of their future and a captain with the team.
Now that player is the SMJHL commissioner and plays on a team that isn’t the Chiefs.
01-08-2020, 10:40 AMjRuutu Wrote: Who is that player? If the player he took the 1st line C role was not 100% active - that is what happens, actives take over.
I have nothing against Spartan, unfortunate that he is part of this whole thing.
That player was 100% active, one of the key parts of their future and a captain with the team.
Now that player is the SMJHL commissioner and plays on a team that isn’t the Chiefs.
Always a good strategy to say the SMJHL Commissioner is inactive when she does more for this site than most will ever do
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01-08-2020, 10:40 AMjRuutu Wrote: Who is that player? If the player he took the 1st line C role was not 100% active - that is what happens, actives take over.
I have nothing against Spartan, unfortunate that he is part of this whole thing.
That player was 100% active, one of the key parts of their future and a captain with the team.
Now that player is the SMJHL commissioner and plays on a team that isn’t the Chiefs.
01-08-2020, 10:40 AMjRuutu Wrote: Who is that player? If the player he took the 1st line C role was not 100% active - that is what happens, actives take over.
I have nothing against Spartan, unfortunate that he is part of this whole thing.
That player was 100% active, one of the key parts of their future and a captain with the team.
Now that player is the SMJHL commissioner and plays on a team that isn’t the Chiefs.
Cool that still active, what kind of TPE levels are we talking about here and center depth in general at the time? Roughly 1k TPE player lost his job to a 1500TPE player, or was the difference smaller, only 1 active center?
01-08-2020, 10:38 AMnour Wrote: Right of the bat your first argument is that McZ has been here longer, which literally everyone agrees isn’t much of a deciding factor if at all, and SpartanGibbles has held plenty of jobs too, including more recent GM experience and an updating position. You’re looking at this entirely from the perspective of “HO would hire anyone just to not hire McZ”, and not even remotely considering that Gibbles got the job because he’s???? qualified??? a better candidate??? You’re acting like Gibbles is an IA player who swooped in and stole the job thanks to HO’s plotting against McZ, and not even remotely giving him the credit his track record deserves. I have no doubt in my mind HO picked the best candidate.
I’ll give you playing the most might be justified, but playing him top pair with the lowest TPE defenseman on his team really comes across as stat padding, its not like MIN is deep enough to afford spreading their depth, and you haven’t addressed any of the other 5 points I made for Gibbles, or the second half of the 6th point that mentioned the survey.
And I still feel simply the fact that someone has been here longer automatically says they might know a lot more about the league than someone who has been here less time. Especially in McZ´s case where he has done it all during his time here.
What should I think as a ´neutral´ viewer, I see GM jobs opening and I hear McZ going for them, he does not get them. Couple times I understand it, maybe there is a lot of members who want the job and only one gets it, but when we get to three and more times, then its personal from HO towards McZ. I honestly think McZ is that good of a candidate to run any team. If you don´t want to give him that opportunity to even show what he can do? That is not right.
I genuinely don’t see how being here longer simply just means they’re better. If someone has been a GM more recently or been in a team’s management group longer. I’m putting a lot more stock in that than just BEING here, and Gibbles literally brings both of those to the table over McZ.
I don’t think McZ should be barred from jobs, I’m sure he’d make an alright GM, but I really can’t see the argument you’re making that he’s better than Gibbles. A lot of your takes just don’t make any sense and they all just stem from him being here longer, which is like probably the only thing he has on Gibbles, and that really doesn’t amount to much
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01-08-2020, 08:54 AMSDCore Wrote: I wasn't going to comment because this is silly and you are all upset, but NONE of you saw the applications. Did you? Gibbles not doing regression? Are you serious? He was a lead updater for 3+ seasons, he has seen more regressions then most in this league. We didn't bias pick this, despite what you believe. His application was strong, he was a good candidate already in Minnesota Management.
Gibbles has been a good member of Minnesota for 5+ seasons, longer than McZ or any other candidate, he has a ton of recommendations. Please give the guy a shot instead of immediately trashing him.
The point was on him never going through these bumps on the road with his own player. I´m sure he was/is a good candidate, but I don´t believe for a second that McZ was not the right man for the job.
Of course Spartan has recommendations, his friends are sitting in the HO, you included. Conflict of interest in my eyes and surely there has to be some value on the fact that McZ has applied for these jobs more than once before with a strong application? If not, why not just tell him he is never going to get hired? You guys bullies - simple as that.
Free agents are the cancer of every league. Testing the free agency and seeing what your value might be is a move done by cowards and selfish players. Never understood the desire to leave for free - I mean why do it? If you want a change of scenery, why not ask for a trade?
Starting to see quite few almost undraftable players in this league, why should teams waste a first round pick to a user who is almost guaranteed to leave for free at some point?
In general to free agents: what you think will happen when you play these games time after time? Do you think number of teams who want to have you in their organization will be bigger or smaller?
01-08-2020, 10:49 AMBDonini Wrote: That player was 100% active, one of the key parts of their future and a captain with the team.
Now that player is the SMJHL commissioner and plays on a team that isn’t the Chiefs.
Cool that still active, what kind of TPE levels are we talking about here and center depth in general at the time? Roughly 1k TPE player lost his job to a 1500TPE player, or was the difference smaller, only 1 active center?
Does it matter what TPE levels they were at? A coach of a rebuilding team made a promise to a key young player and then went back on that promise to give his own player more ice time, playing a big role in that player leaving the team and you want to tell me that said coach would make a better GM than Gibbles because he has more experience?
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