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spooked · 11-04-2021, 11:12 AM

11-04-2021, 10:58 AMEvok Wrote:
11-04-2021, 10:42 AMspooked Wrote: Not going to go into the HO side of things, I am on my way out and pretty much stayed out of this as much as possible beyond a vote, but personally I would be hesitant to do any strikes or firings of GMs at this point as the pool of people applying for openings is so small that any firing we do off of a rulebook issue could give the league and HO an even bigger issue to try and figure out how to solve. If we fire a GM because of a trade, and no one applies to replace them, what do we do? This wasn't something I brought up in this case or was relevant to what you are talking about, but I have mentioned it recently in HO chat that I would be worried about it.

i agree with you, it's the first thing i though about as well, but if HO want to be hard ass in one case, they need to be hard ass everywhere and not pick and choose to their liking like they are doing right now. If not putting strike against gm is one of their concern now, they should revert the mtl punishment, if not, its still blatant favoritism like this whole thread rekt off

There are some discussions going around in HO about rule changes to the strikes/gm firing, not sure if it will go all the way through to a rule change anytime soon, but I would be shocked if they fired anyone for a rule infraction right now without it being clearly on purpose or being a big enough issue to merit it. Even if the strike on MTL became relevant, I would be surprised if they didn't give lenience if they had to actually make the decision to fire or not

***CampinKiller*** · 11-04-2021, 11:17 AM

11-04-2021, 11:12 AMspooked Wrote:
11-04-2021, 10:58 AMEvok Wrote: i agree with you, it's the first thing i though about as well, but if HO want to be hard ass in one case, they need to be hard ass everywhere and not pick and choose to their liking like they are doing right now. If not putting strike against gm is one of their concern now, they should revert the mtl punishment, if not, its still blatant favoritism like this whole thread rekt off
There are some discussions going around in HO about rule changes to the strikes/gm firing, not sure if it will go all the way through to a rule change anytime soon, but I would be shocked if they fired anyone for a rule infraction right now without it being clearly on purpose or being a big enough issue to merit it. Even if the strike on MTL became relevant, I would be surprised if they didn't give lenience if they had to actually make the decision to fire or not

What is even the point in striking infidel then (which I feel is still soft anyway, especially compared to this)? When did the rulebook become a pick and choose thing, exactly, especially after that hardline enforcement.

PremierBromanov · 11-04-2021, 11:20 AM

So then doesn't this just incentivize GMs to ask for illegal trades because they can still get what they ask for and the other team gets punished to boot? Maybe I'm naive about GM relationships, but i don't really think we want to incentivize cut-throat behavior like that.

to echo what everyone else has said, it's bizzare to me that both teams essentially made the illegal trade with zero practical consequences.

***micool132*** · 11-04-2021, 11:20 AM

im gonna win the cup

***WannabeFinn*** · 11-04-2021, 11:21 AM

11-04-2021, 10:42 AMspooked Wrote:
11-04-2021, 10:37 AMEvok Wrote: Yeah you are right i shouldnt have said "past gm" but im trying to be a bit understanding with a guy that was basically left to dust without a word by his head gm after being recently hired and not having gmed in a few years. While he should have still checked, i still think if he get the letter of thr law, this should apply as well since they want to compare it to an illegal trade.

Not going to go into the HO side of things, I am on my way out and pretty much stayed out of this as much as possible beyond a vote, but personally I would be hesitant to do any strikes or firings of GMs at this point as the pool of people applying for openings is so small that any firing we do off of a rulebook issue could give the league and HO an even bigger issue to try and figure out how to solve. If we fire a GM because of a trade, and no one applies to replace them, what do we do? This wasn't something I brought up in this case or was relevant to what you are talking about, but I have mentioned it recently in HO chat that I would be worried about it.

I don’t think letting actions go largely unpunished bodes well for future GM applications but hey let’s worry about the potential future problem rather than the one staring us in the face.

***Toast*** · 11-04-2021, 11:22 AM

It's almost that time. We need everyone's support!

[Image: Screenshot_20211031-182404__01.jpg]

***luke*** · 11-04-2021, 11:28 AM

I will say, from my previous comment that I love Nour. HO is an extremely hard job. And it’s difficult to balance. I think the best step to look ahead and try to make HO better is to expand it by 2 members.
Which is harder than it seems because most HO jobs barely get filled to begin with. It’s also weird because there is no set “HO” time. Like when you are on discord you get pinged everyday about HO stuff, it gets tiring mentally.
One thing I would like to see is more doers. Instead of talking all this shit let’s get shit done

***bluesfan55*** · 11-04-2021, 11:31 AM

ho really a bunch of procrastinators now eh? fucking awful job from you lot smh

ty to @High Stick King @EvilAllBran and @Ragnar for the sigs

ACapitalChicago · 11-04-2021, 11:37 AM

11-04-2021, 07:54 AMleviadan Wrote: HO can't dodge accountability with this early morning post because I rigged my phone to go off like an amber alert every time a punishment thread goes up

I think this is my favorite post I've read on this site yet

11-04-2021, 10:40 AMVaxlare Wrote:
11-04-2021, 10:37 AMEvok Wrote: Yeah you are right i shouldnt have said "past gm" but im trying to be a bit understanding with a guy that was basically left to dust without a word by his head gm after being recently hired and not having gmed in a few years. While he should have still checked, i still think if he get the letter of thr law, this should apply as well since they want to compare it to an illegal trade.

If anyone didn't know said GM also reappeared last week to update without as much as a "Hi" to anyone in the MTL LR he ghosted.

I believe this is what we call a "dick move"

11-04-2021, 10:58 AMEvok Wrote:
11-04-2021, 10:42 AMspooked Wrote: Not going to go into the HO side of things, I am on my way out and pretty much stayed out of this as much as possible beyond a vote, but personally I would be hesitant to do any strikes or firings of GMs at this point as the pool of people applying for openings is so small that any firing we do off of a rulebook issue could give the league and HO an even bigger issue to try and figure out how to solve. If we fire a GM because of a trade, and no one applies to replace them, what do we do? This wasn't something I brought up in this case or was relevant to what you are talking about, but I have mentioned it recently in HO chat that I would be worried about it.

i agree with you, it's the first thing i though about as well, but if HO want to be hard ass in one case, they need to be hard ass everywhere and not pick and choose to their liking like they are doing right now. If not putting strike against gm is one of their concern now, they should revert the mtl punishment, if not, its still blatant favoritism like this whole thread rekt off

Yeah basically this. I've also been concerned with the slow decline of application quantities, that's something that's really unfortunate to see. However, it doesn't make sense to punish one GM with probation because they're already in the position, then not even a week later (despite sitting on it for so long) to not punish another GM with it because they're new and you're worried about future applications. Finn also brings up a good point that you should probably handle the immediate problem first and then move on to preventative future measures

S66 Damian Littleton

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*Count Chocula* · 11-04-2021, 11:38 AM

Maybe instead of GM applications we should just have a rulebook test and the highest score wins the job. Or just get rid of the rulebook entirely since no one uses it and it's never enforced

spooked · 11-04-2021, 11:42 AM

11-04-2021, 11:21 AMWannabeFinn Wrote:
11-04-2021, 10:42 AMspooked Wrote: Not going to go into the HO side of things, I am on my way out and pretty much stayed out of this as much as possible beyond a vote, but personally I would be hesitant to do any strikes or firings of GMs at this point as the pool of people applying for openings is so small that any firing we do off of a rulebook issue could give the league and HO an even bigger issue to try and figure out how to solve. If we fire a GM because of a trade, and no one applies to replace them, what do we do? This wasn't something I brought up in this case or was relevant to what you are talking about, but I have mentioned it recently in HO chat that I would be worried about it.
I don’t think letting actions go largely unpunished bodes well for future GM applications but hey let’s worry about the potential future problem rather than the one staring us in the face.

I mean, if we're considering changing rules, it is a current problem. But like I said, it wasn't in context of this, more in context of the discussion about applying strikes in general. I am going to be out of SHL HO in a few days and have been holding myself out of decisions/discussions for a week or two now, so I would not be really able to speak on the stance of this punishment but I don't think it is fair to say it is a potential future problem when we have already have GM openings happen with literally 1 or no applications.

Spartan · 11-04-2021, 11:45 AM

11-04-2021, 11:37 AMACapitalChicago Wrote: Yeah basically this. I've also been concerned with the slow decline of application quantities, that's something that's really unfortunate to see. However, it doesn't make sense to punish one GM with probation because they're already in the position, then not even a week later (despite sitting on it for so long) to not punish another GM with it because they're new and you're worried about future applications. Finn also brings up a good point that you should probably handle the immediate problem first and then move on to preventative future measures

I'm not very active in this league, but I've mentioned a few times in LR's that punishments for GM's with rule infringements seem a bit harsh for seemingly first and second offenses, or for GM's inheriting a new team. I obviously don't know full context, so there are probably many instances where the punishments are fair, but considering how most of these team punishment threads get, it seems like overall, punishments for non-behavioral rule infringements seem overly harsh. Even in WJC, there were instances of harsh punishments, but those got scaled back because everyone thought they were excessive. Maybe if the book wasn't thrown at GM's for seemingly minor rule infractions, more people would be interested in GM'ing knowing that they won't lose millions or be put on probation for something as small as say goalie starts that can be made up the next season, or in playoffs.

***Vandy*** · 11-04-2021, 11:47 AM

For a minute there I thought it was going to be another slap on the wrist for Hamilton. But no, head office surprised me it's just a slap on the wrist for somebody else.

That's illegal isn't it? Doesn't the rule book say only Hamilton can get soft punishment?

***Evok*** · 11-04-2021, 11:48 AM

11-04-2021, 11:28 AMluketd Wrote: I will say, from my previous comment that I love Nour. HO is an extremely hard job. And it’s difficult to balance. I think the best step to look ahead and try to make HO better is to expand it by 2 members.
Which is harder than it seems because most HO jobs barely get filled to begin with. It’s also weird because there is no set “HO” time. Like when you are on discord you get pinged everyday about HO stuff, it gets tiring mentally.
One thing I would like to see is more doers. Instead of talking all this shit let’s get shit done

from experience, that's not something that interest ho as bad as it seems lol. a few seasons ago, before i got Quebec, i basically told ho that's what I'd do. I want to be a doer for HO, that's how i am, that's how i was when i was smjhl ho. Yet they preferred to go with more talker that aren't even here today either

*Wally* · 11-04-2021, 11:49 AM

11-04-2021, 11:10 AMSpartan Wrote:
11-04-2021, 10:47 AMWally Wrote: Make a point. Then act like a child. Solid job, GM.
pot calling the kettle black

Really... interesting.

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