11-05-2021, 07:30 PM(This post was last modified: 11-05-2021, 07:52 PM by luke.)
11-05-2021, 07:09 PMMemento Mori Wrote:
11-05-2021, 04:32 PMluketd Wrote: But to the main thing, which is GM's not having PT Passes I am just against it. The whole point for me as a GM is to lead your team, both as a GM and as a player. You want to set the example of being a good player. If all GMs get PT passes, how will the reflect on the league. 40 SHL GM's + 28 SMJHL GM's dont get to do PT's. I dont want to be the ISFL where they throw around PT passes like its Candy. I know the work that goes into being a GM, and yet everyone still does PT's and CW's. And it's not we suffer so they suffer, how long do PT's take, 5? 10 miuntes? CW is an hour? Its not that long of a time to earn TPE.
We voted to give GMs the equivalent of CW passes in ISFL over a year ago now and there's not been any tangible negatives, is there any reason you dislike the idea besides the idea that GMs should have to do further, additional work to set an example or because you don't think it's much extra work?
Given that the standard there is that most teams scout every player in each draft class and that doesn't happen here, freeing up some of their time to do scouting rather than CW busy work seems like it could improve the experience for other users. Further, given how many punishments there are for missing GM tasks in SHL compared with ISFL, it seems a pretty easy way to reduce their workload at that time of the season.
I dont see doing PT's and CW's doing additional work. Its just how they get TPE for their player. And scouting in the SHL is way more different than the ISFL, where in the ISFL you get messaged by everyone because they want to pressure the player into swapping positions. Where in the SHL, it is a lot different, as we dont do that. If you are a team with pick #20 you have an idea of who you are drafting in the range so you scout them. If you are a top 10 pick you scout those players. And if you have extra picks in the 2nd or 1st you scout a wider range of players. If you only need forwards in a draft you only scout forwards, if you need defense you only scout defense. Now sure SHL GM's should scout more, but they dont. But giving them a CW pass or a PT pass wont change that.
if a PT is ~5-10 minutes of work, and there is 5 of them. 25-50 minutes of work in a season for a PT + 1 hour for CW doesnt get you there. It isnt a workload, its how their player earns TPE. If a GM cant do their GM tasks ontop of 2 hours of work a season for PT's, I dont know what to tell you.
I dislike the idea because I dont see it as an advantage. I think GM's should lead by example and do PT's and CW's, or else you will end up like ISFL where you have 43 people have PT + CW Pass, 50 people with a CW Pass, 5 people with various Passes, and 15 simmers for Prediction Passes.
11-05-2021, 07:09 PMMemento Mori Wrote: We voted to give GMs the equivalent of CW passes in ISFL over a year ago now and there's not been any tangible negatives, is there any reason you dislike the idea besides the idea that GMs should have to do further, additional work to set an example or because you don't think it's much extra work?
Given that the standard there is that most teams scout every player in each draft class and that doesn't happen here, freeing up some of their time to do scouting rather than CW busy work seems like it could improve the experience for other users. Further, given how many punishments there are for missing GM tasks in SHL compared with ISFL, it seems a pretty easy way to reduce their workload at that time of the season.
I dont see doing PT's and CW's doing additional work. Its just how they get TPE for their player. And scouting in the SHL is way more different than the ISFL, where in the ISFL you get messaged by everyone because they want to pressure the player into swapping positions. Where in the SHL, it is a lot different, as we dont do that. If you are a team with pick #20 you have an idea of who you are drafting in the range so you scout them. If you are a top 10 pick you scout those players. And if you have extra picks in the 2nd or 1st you scout a wider range of players. If you only need forwards in a draft you only scout forwards, if you need defense you only scout defense. Now sure SHL GM's should scout more, but they dont. But giving them a CW pass or a PT pass wont change that.
if a PT is ~5-10 minutes of work, and there is 5 of them. 25-50 minutes of work in a season for a PT + 1 hour for CW doesnt get you there. It isnt a workload, its how their player earns TPE. If a GM cant do their tasks ontop of 2 hours of work a season, I dont know what to tell you.
I dislike the idea because I dont see it as an advantage. I think GM's should lead by example and do PT's and CW's, or else you will end up like ISFL where you have 43 people have PT + CW Pass, 50 people with a CW Pass, 5 people with various Passes, and 15 simmers for Prediction Passes.
It doesn't have to be "how they get TPE" though, HO could announce passes tomorrow. That's just inertia.
I don't think, given the fact that GMing evidently isn't attractive right now - as we in Toronto experienced where none of us wanted the job having seen how much time our previous GM invested - that it should be a question of "can" people do it, but making the job less time-consuming where possible to reduce the number of GMs stepping down and increase the number of applicants. The group of users who are willing to GM are a vital resource that the league needs in order to survive, I think it's worth considering when this thread is full of current and former GMs asking for it.
11-04-2021, 11:02 PMKeygan Wrote: What had Dankoa ever done to make people think he may disappear within two months of hiring?
He’s still updating which is hilarious to me
I had an immediate family member die and had to fly half way around the world to console people and try to arrange a funeral, not sure what’s hilarious about that personally but I assumed people realised if I ghosted it was for a good reason
11-05-2021, 04:32 PMluketd Wrote: Damn you really like to be passive aggressive dont you. If you refer to me having Vertigo as the main goalie in the budget. I had to look at your budget sheet because I did not have access to GM tasks, where it did not denote who was the backup goalie, and they both made the same money. So What I took is that the top goalie was the main goalie and the bottom goalie was the backup goalie. I was not aware who was the backup until you tagged me where I responded 1 minute later. So I dont know why you threw that in, maybe as a jab? Maybe you should really want start shit in the budget channel and not in the GM channel
You looked at our budget, which is sorted in our own manner, because you turned down a sheet from HO that would have specifically listed out every team's proper backup goalie. If you had accepted that sheet, not only would you have gotten our backup correct, you would have gotten Atlanta's as well. You weren't aware because you refused a resource that would have solved all of this in the first place.
You're right, maybe I should call you out in the budget sheet instead. Far be it from me to let other teams know they should probably check their backups instead of starting shit with you. My bad.
11-05-2021, 04:32 PMluketd Wrote: But to the main thing, which is GM's not having PT Passes I am just against it. The whole point for me as a GM is to lead your team, both as a GM and as a player. You want to set the example of being a good player. If all GMs get PT passes, how will the reflect on the league. 40 SHL GM's + 28 SMJHL GM's dont get to do PT's. I dont want to be the ISFL where they throw around PT passes like its Candy. I know the work that goes into being a GM, and yet everyone still does PT's and CW's. And it's not we suffer so they suffer, how long do PT's take, 5? 10 miuntes? CW is an hour? Its not that long of a time to earn TPE.
Yes, GMs need to set a good example. But the league also needs to set an example by doing better by their GMs. We'll agree to disagree on the overall PT pass, yet I like how you equate GMs getting a pass to "throwing passes out like candy." Just because GMs would get it doesn't mean that every other job should get it. Its about the workload the job requires, which is part of why simmers get one now. But disregarding that, why are you so against a CW pass? Its one thing, one task. Yes, it takes an hour to do, but for GMs who have a lot of other shit to be doing that week, it is such a menial time waster that getting a CW pass would be the smallest fucking bone for GMs to not have to worry about doing it every season. It may not be that much time to you, but to some people, that one hour is a lot out of their week. Especially for people who already put in an incredible amount of time into a fake hockey league job.
11-05-2021, 04:32 PMluketd Wrote: For the actual Minnesota job, I mean who really wants to take a job in Minnesota? A team that has been at the bottom of the league for the past 10+ seasons. Mostly it comes down to the internal candidates on it, and Muted will do a good job, he is passionate for Minnesota and I really do hope he will do a good job.
This only helps my point. You actually specifically point out why this should be an attractive position in the next point you tried to make here -
Quote:Lets be honest here, people want to be GM's because they want to make their mark on the league and they think that they can build a great team.
The Minnesota job is/was the perfect opportunity for someone to come in and make it their own, to build a team essentially from the ground up and make something special out of it. Yet I'm fairly certain that Muted only applied because nobody else did, and he didn't want to see Minnesota fucked over.
11-05-2021, 04:32 PMluketd Wrote: I know when we had apps out for GM's, we had plently of people apply, and were qualified/ we thought they would make good GM's. What it goes down to is internal candidates usually get the job 99% of the time. So thats why there are a handful of applications for GM's, and with expansion there are like 5-8 qualified users.
If the first sentence was true, Muted wouldn't be the GM of Minnesota. He'd still be in Detroit. Internal candidates tend to get it when they're able to prove in their application and demeanor that they'd be able to handle the position at least on an even level to outside hires. SHL expansion if I remember correctly was a mix of current GMs from the J and SHL Co-GMs, so that point you tried to make is yet again moot because it isn't people applying who haven't been GMs before, or have a little experience with it. It is mostly current GMs (or fired ex-GMs) who enjoy being in management and want the opportunity to build their own brand/organization. But that's a different conversation.
11-05-2021, 11:56 PM(This post was last modified: 11-05-2021, 11:57 PM by FuzzSHL.)
11-05-2021, 07:54 PMMemento Mori Wrote:
11-05-2021, 07:30 PMluketd Wrote: I dont see doing PT's and CW's doing additional work. Its just how they get TPE for their player. And scouting in the SHL is way more different than the ISFL, where in the ISFL you get messaged by everyone because they want to pressure the player into swapping positions. Where in the SHL, it is a lot different, as we dont do that. If you are a team with pick #20 you have an idea of who you are drafting in the range so you scout them. If you are a top 10 pick you scout those players. And if you have extra picks in the 2nd or 1st you scout a wider range of players. If you only need forwards in a draft you only scout forwards, if you need defense you only scout defense. Now sure SHL GM's should scout more, but they dont. But giving them a CW pass or a PT pass wont change that.
if a PT is ~5-10 minutes of work, and there is 5 of them. 25-50 minutes of work in a season for a PT + 1 hour for CW doesnt get you there. It isnt a workload, its how their player earns TPE. If a GM cant do their tasks ontop of 2 hours of work a season, I dont know what to tell you.
I dislike the idea because I dont see it as an advantage. I think GM's should lead by example and do PT's and CW's, or else you will end up like ISFL where you have 43 people have PT + CW Pass, 50 people with a CW Pass, 5 people with various Passes, and 15 simmers for Prediction Passes.
It doesn't have to be "how they get TPE" though, HO could announce passes tomorrow. That's just inertia.
I don't think, given the fact that GMing evidently isn't attractive right now - as we in Toronto experienced where none of us wanted the job having seen how much time our previous GM invested - that it should be a question of "can" people do it, but making the job less time-consuming where possible to reduce the number of GMs stepping down and increase the number of applicants. The group of users who are willing to GM are a vital resource that the league needs in order to survive, I think it's worth considering when this thread is full of current and former GMs asking for it.
"Lead by example" is so much more than earning TPE for your player. I don't know how people don't realize that.
You're spot on with what you're saying, which is exactly why it is going to be ignored by certain people.
Instead of talking about a CW pass, why don't we just acknowledge that CW is horribly boring in general, that barely anyone enjoys it especially after doing it for the 10th time and that we would be much better off getting rid off it altogether and pay out the TPE we used to pay out through CW througher other new, fresh and more engaging activites?
11-06-2021, 08:49 AM(This post was last modified: 11-06-2021, 09:09 AM by Samsung virtual assistant.)
11-06-2021, 07:55 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Instead of talking about a CW pass, why don't we just acknowledge that CW is horribly boring in general, that barely anyone enjoys it especially after doing it for the 10th time and that we would be much better off getting rid off it altogether and pay out the TPE we used to pay out through CW througher other new, fresh and more engaging activites?
IMO remove all PTs except for mocks, i havent liked written PTs ever :(
OT but it would also be cool if we could add a system where you can spend your career earnings(from contract money) specifically on stuff to progress your player, kind of like the system in NHL BAP. It would probable be next to impossible to implement here though seeing how our contract system is already fucked up with everyone taking minimum contract, and with them being so high already the cap would have to go up a lot to make it viable.
11-06-2021, 07:55 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Instead of talking about a CW pass, why don't we just acknowledge that CW is horribly boring in general, that barely anyone enjoys it especially after doing it for the 10th time and that we would be much better off getting rid off it altogether and pay out the TPE we used to pay out through CW througher other new, fresh and more engaging activites?
IMO remove all PTs except for mocks, i havent liked written PTs ever :(
OT but it would also be cool if we could add a system where you can spend your career earnings(from contract money) specifically on stuff to progress your player, kind of like the system in NHL BAP. It would probable be next to impossible to implement here though seeing how our contract system is already fucked up with everyone taking minimum contract, and with them being so high already the cap would have to go up a lot to make it viable.
Could possibly have an inverse scale for this. As you get better your cap hit gets bigger but your resources for that progress diminish.
11-05-2021, 07:09 PMMemento Mori Wrote: We voted to give GMs the equivalent of CW passes in ISFL over a year ago now and there's not been any tangible negatives, is there any reason you dislike the idea besides the idea that GMs should have to do further, additional work to set an example or because you don't think it's much extra work?
Given that the standard there is that most teams scout every player in each draft class and that doesn't happen here, freeing up some of their time to do scouting rather than CW busy work seems like it could improve the experience for other users. Further, given how many punishments there are for missing GM tasks in SHL compared with ISFL, it seems a pretty easy way to reduce their workload at that time of the season.
I dont see doing PT's and CW's doing additional work. Its just how they get TPE for their player. And scouting in the SHL is way more different than the ISFL, where in the ISFL you get messaged by everyone because they want to pressure the player into swapping positions. Where in the SHL, it is a lot different, as we dont do that. If you are a team with pick #20 you have an idea of who you are drafting in the range so you scout them. If you are a top 10 pick you scout those players. And if you have extra picks in the 2nd or 1st you scout a wider range of players. If you only need forwards in a draft you only scout forwards, if you need defense you only scout defense. Now sure SHL GM's should scout more, but they dont. But giving them a CW pass or a PT pass wont change that.
if a PT is ~5-10 minutes of work, and there is 5 of them. 25-50 minutes of work in a season for a PT + 1 hour for CW doesnt get you there. It isnt a workload, its how their player earns TPE. If a GM cant do their GM tasks ontop of 2 hours of work a season for PT's, I dont know what to tell you.
I dislike the idea because I dont see it as an advantage. I think GM's should lead by example and do PT's and CW's, or else you will end up like ISFL where you have 43 people have PT + CW Pass, 50 people with a CW Pass, 5 people with various Passes, and 15 simmers for Prediction Passes.
luke I'm not sure I understand...
So PTs aren't any work, but they are so much work that they set an example for other players? And having ~60 people with passes (out of, what, 400+ players?) is inherently bad?
I think the idea that others are arguing for is that there is a big discrepancy between good gms and bad gms and that discrepancy is usually based on time, not mental acuity. Also, if we have few applicants for GM positions, that's not automatically the cream of the crop applying (it could be). Therefore, with a PT task we get more applicants and have a better pool to select from on top of those Gms having more time to be better at their jobs.
The only thing I would be concerned with is limiting PT passes, for sure. TPE gain is already out of control and regression is a joke. That's an angle I understand. We shouldnt hand them out willy nilly.
But the angle that doing PT tasks somehow makes players look up to their GMs or something? i dont know lol. Doesn't make sense to me.
luke
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