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spooked · 08-17-2022, 07:43 PM

08-17-2022, 05:09 PMbrickwall35 Wrote:
08-17-2022, 11:49 AMspooked Wrote: How IA does someone need to be to be ineligible, cause with discord its kind of hard to figure out. There are people who barely/don't update but do talk in discord a lot, are people like that ineligible cause to me its kind of subjective if you think someone should be considered active or not unless they are legit gone for multiple seasons already.
If someone isn't updating their player or being active on the site, IMHO, they aren't contributing to the league as a whole. That's fine, I'm not attacking anyone for doing that. But the awards should be a fun bonus for those who are active and best reflect what the league has to offer.

I just hate to see an award go to someone who doesn't even care they won it, if there's an equally worthwhile user who was more active who would gain some pleasure out of winning it. I agree, there's definitely some gray area. But I think it's easy enough to eliminate those who are clearly IA.

Yeah, it would just be nice for that Grey area to have some recognition in these takes cause someone not updating for a month has little to no indication of overall site activity to me. They could login everyday and be inactive. They could watch every Sim and be inactive. They could post 20 times in discord a day and be inactive. It's not a very good metric. Some people come back just to sign active contracts and then poof right after accepting.

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 08-17-2022, 07:44 PM

08-17-2022, 05:09 PMbrickwall35 Wrote:
08-17-2022, 11:49 AMspooked Wrote: How IA does someone need to be to be ineligible, cause with discord its kind of hard to figure out. There are people who barely/don't update but do talk in discord a lot, are people like that ineligible cause to me its kind of subjective if you think someone should be considered active or not unless they are legit gone for multiple seasons already.
If someone isn't updating their player or being active on the site, IMHO, they aren't contributing to the league as a whole. That's fine, I'm not attacking anyone for doing that. But the awards should be a fun bonus for those who are active and best reflect what the league has to offer.

I just hate to see an award go to someone who doesn't even care they won it, if there's an equally worthwhile user who was more active who would gain some pleasure out of winning it. I agree, there's definitely some gray area. But I think it's easy enough to eliminate those who are clearly IA.

It's up to the individual Committee members to choose their stance on this. I personally don't really care much whether a player is Active or Inactive unless it's as sort of a tiebreaker, in my opinion Awards should be purely player- and stats-based and not really factor in any criteria that is about the user. In my opinion it devalues an Awardor nomination if you only got it because other, better players were excluded due to their activity. These Awards are supposed to honor the best of the best and in order to get one you have to beat everyone, Actives and Inactives alike. But I know that that's a minority opinion, most of the Commitee members are against including Inactives as far as I know, as they put higher emphasis on rewarding the active members of the community, which is also fine.

So there is no set "cut-off" that marks a player as Inactive or not, but we are usually rather generous. You don't really need to be actively updating in order to be considered not Inactive, if we see that you logged in and maybe occasionally left a post somewhere over the last few months then that's usually sufficient.

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 08-17-2022, 08:05 PM

08-15-2022, 11:58 AMPremierBromanov Wrote: I'd love to read more justification for why awards are given to whom they are given

08-15-2022, 03:11 PM_Blitz_ Wrote: I agree on more carefully filtering IAs. It'd also be interesting to see kind of a checklist on what qualities y'all look at for the awards.

I understand that different people weight stats differently, but in general what are you looking for? It's seemed murky in seasons past.

What exactly should that look like? We have Awards streams or forum threads were the hosts talk about the contributions of the nominees, in some years we have articles about the various award candidates and me or other members of the Committee are usually there in those threads to answer any questions you might have.

But usually how it goes is that someone simply complains that one of their teammates didn't get some nomination and once we reply and ask for some more detailed feedback or even push back against an incorrect narrative then those people usually go silent. It doesn't feel like the highest form of conversation to engage in most times.

Symmetrik · 08-17-2022, 08:27 PM

Tbh I think IAs should be eligible and should win if they deserve it. Regardless of if they are active or not, why do you even want an award where someone was clearly the better player? Awards aren't given out for users, it's not a representation of the quality of the user but how well the player met the qualifications. If you weren't the best at meeting the qualifications, you shouldn't win the award, regardless of who it's against. Like I wouldn't feel good at all about winning an award where soemone else was clearly better

**brickwall35** · 08-17-2022, 09:31 PM

08-17-2022, 08:27 PMSymmetrik Wrote: Tbh I think IAs should be eligible and should win if they deserve it. Regardless of if they are active or not, why do you even want an award where someone was clearly the better player? Awards aren't given out for users, it's not a representation of the quality of the user but how well the player met the qualifications. If you weren't the best at meeting the qualifications, you shouldn't win the award, regardless of who it's against. Like I wouldn't feel good at all about winning an award where soemone else was clearly better

Because a player that is essentially a bot winning an award is pointless.

**brickwall35** · 08-17-2022, 09:41 PM

08-17-2022, 07:43 PMspooked Wrote:
08-17-2022, 05:09 PMbrickwall35 Wrote: If someone isn't updating their player or being active on the site, IMHO, they aren't contributing to the league as a whole. That's fine, I'm not attacking anyone for doing that. But the awards should be a fun bonus for those who are active and best reflect what the league has to offer.

I just hate to see an award go to someone who doesn't even care they won it, if there's an equally worthwhile user who was more active who would gain some pleasure out of winning it. I agree, there's definitely some gray area. But I think it's easy enough to eliminate those who are clearly IA.

Yeah, it would just be nice for that Grey area to have some recognition in these takes cause someone not updating for a month has little to no indication of overall site activity to me. They could login everyday and be inactive. They could watch every Sim and be inactive. They could post 20 times in discord a day and be inactive. It's not a very good metric. Some people come back just to sign active contracts and then poof right after accepting.

I agree, and I'm not trying to have it be so brutally cut as to take people who are somewhat active out of the running. But if we look at potential goalie award noms, Meeka Keprosoft was high in many key stats, but is a <400 TPE long time IA goalie who benefited from being on HAM.

The record book will always show who had the best stats. Awards, that involve some subjectivity, should be reserved for those who at least have some form of activity.

***WannabeFinn*** · 08-17-2022, 09:46 PM

08-17-2022, 09:31 PMbrickwall35 Wrote:
08-17-2022, 08:27 PMSymmetrik Wrote: Tbh I think IAs should be eligible and should win if they deserve it. Regardless of if they are active or not, why do you even want an award where someone was clearly the better player? Awards aren't given out for users, it's not a representation of the quality of the user but how well the player met the qualifications. If you weren't the best at meeting the qualifications, you shouldn't win the award, regardless of who it's against. Like I wouldn't feel good at all about winning an award where soemone else was clearly better
Because a player that is essentially a bot winning an award is pointless.

I think that’s a bit harsh to characterize inactives as bots.

***luke*** · 08-17-2022, 09:52 PM

Ivan Lacksamus for ROTY Nom :pepog:

4th in rookie scoring on a bad team, helped the team more than other rookies on other teams.

something to chew on

***aleks*** · 08-17-2022, 09:57 PM

08-17-2022, 09:31 PMbrickwall35 Wrote:
08-17-2022, 08:27 PMSymmetrik Wrote: Tbh I think IAs should be eligible and should win if they deserve it. Regardless of if they are active or not, why do you even want an award where someone was clearly the better player? Awards aren't given out for users, it's not a representation of the quality of the user but how well the player met the qualifications. If you weren't the best at meeting the qualifications, you shouldn't win the award, regardless of who it's against. Like I wouldn't feel good at all about winning an award where soemone else was clearly better
Because a player that is essentially a bot winning an award is pointless.

The inactives would be pissed if they logged on the site and saw this

**brickwall35** · 08-17-2022, 10:19 PM

08-17-2022, 09:46 PMWannabeFinn Wrote:
08-17-2022, 09:31 PMbrickwall35 Wrote: Because a player that is essentially a bot winning an award is pointless.
I think that’s a bit harsh to characterize inactives as bots.

I can't think of a better description of a player who's user hasn't been active in a year and never even hit the J cap. It's a bot.

jumpSeat · 08-18-2022, 03:04 AM

08-17-2022, 04:30 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: I have a lot of thoughts about the GM of the year and Coach of the year awards. Often, these two are basically the same set of people working on the same thing, but we also don't seem to have an up to date list of the actual coaching staff for teams that even have separate GMs and coaches. I think there's some room for improving clarity on that front, and it might start with actually polling all the GMs to find out who does what in their front office.

This is a wise human. Please listen to wise humans...

This thread's kind of taken a different turn, but I didn't want these remarks to be drowned in the raging current. The above quote strikes me as a very good idea to help take steps to differentiate between the oft combined but sometimes separate roles of GM and HC. On the surface, the idea expressed in the quote certainly appears beneficial as a positive step toward defining a clear distinction (where warranted), to help make both awards more meaningful.

In other words, if there are people out there who are acting exclusively as their team's head coach, while some other individual carries GM titles and responsibilities, it would seem rather silly to bestow the coveted 'Coach of the Year' award on someone who doesn't actually do any coaching. Here's a thought, how about we not let that happen? Biggrin

***honkerrs*** · 08-18-2022, 07:36 AM

08-17-2022, 04:30 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: I have a lot of thoughts about the GM of the year and Coach of the year awards. Often, these two are basically the same set of people working on the same thing, but we also don't seem to have an up to date list of the actual coaching staff for teams that even have separate GMs and coaches. I think there's some room for improving clarity on that front, and it might start with actually polling all the GMs to find out who does what in their front office.

Yeah this definitely. Additionally, I think drafting isn't taken into account enough for GMOTY and TPE level vs results vs strength of division isn't considered enough for COTY it always seems.

*Tomen* · 08-18-2022, 08:21 AM

I dunno if RED has the same feeling but from my POV in the past it wasn't uncommon to "reward" GMs coming out of a hard rebuild with at least giving them a nom or even winning the GMOTY trophy if they finally made the playoffs or won their first playoff series. That usually only happened tho in "normal" seasons where not much movement was done like this past seaosn where we saw 0 trades during the TDL or and very few trades during the offseason. Would like to see more of these instances.

My take on COTY is usually just : Look up the average skater TPE of a team and give it to the team which is outperforming their average Skater TPE the most or to the presidents trophy winning team if they had a truly excellent season in comparison to other president winners.

Thank you all for the amazing sigs & player cards
Germany

3. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 5 (Maximilian Wachter, Alexis Metzler) at 16:25
5. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 6 (Steven Stamkos Jr., Brynjar Tusk) at 19:48
8. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 7 (Brynjar Tusk, Alexis Metzler) at 13:55
9. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 8 (Anton Fedorov, Mikelis Grundmanis) at 15:12
10. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 9 (Dickie Pecker) at 19:43 (Empty Net)

***Anthique*** · 08-18-2022, 09:39 AM

We look at first at the best players, active or inactive. We still want the best to win someting but it's not always possible. After that for the noms we look at the activity if the players deserved it.

For the coach/GM, I agree with you that it should be more clear who do what.

Vaxlare · 08-18-2022, 10:12 AM

+1 to what Jess and Tomen have said. Having an updated idea of who even does what for a team is a big part of those awards.

Also, I am torn on the IA issue. I get it we want actives to feel rewarded, but who wants an award with an asterisk next to it. Maybe in the event of a tiebreaker go with the active. If I get smoked by an IA though then so be it.

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